case: (Default)
Case ([personal profile] case) wrote in [community profile] fandomsecrets2017-03-19 03:29 pm

[ SECRET POST #3728 ]


⌈ Secret Post #3728 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.








Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 47 secrets from Secret Submission Post #533.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 07:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Nuance? In FANDOM?

Nah, people would rather take sides based on whether they identify with a character or not, and call each other names.
alwaysbeenasmiler: (Arthur☆Gotta fight.. gotta strike)

[personal profile] alwaysbeenasmiler 2017-03-19 07:50 pm (UTC)(link)
See, I agree with you completely!

Snape wasn't a saint by any stretch of the imagination but really life dealt him a really hard card and I find characters like him so intriquing-- because it gives him another layer- especially with his interactions and with what you found out about him, reading the previous books, you can see exactly why he did what he did.

I had an ex girlfriend who hated Snape, who thought he was worse then shit-- and still tried to justify hating him despite finding out that he wasn't as much of a low life as everyone thought-- I still respected Snape's characterizations and I think that is why my ex-girlfriend didn't fully like me too much at points-- because I differed from her on that point (as well as several others)

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 07:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree so much, and I don't even like Snape.

The worst is "Nice Guy Snape." He loved a woman who didn't return his feelings, but that alone does not a Nice Guy make. I don't recall him demonstrating a sense of entitlement to her. He did bad things but not that kind. No, protecting Harry doesn't count. He did that after Lily was dead. What, do you think he expected her to come back from the grave and fuck him?
alwaysbeenasmiler: (Eagle☆In a little while I will play)

[personal profile] alwaysbeenasmiler 2017-03-19 08:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, there was no mention of friendzone, he wasn't happy when she went to James but well, all things considered-- he didn't cry out 'friendzone" which I find admirable. You are right, there was absolutely no sense of entitlement, just a desire to protect Harry because he had Lily's eyes

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 09:11 pm (UTC)(link)
In school, Snape's consistently jealous of everyone that Lily spends time with who isn't him. After school, he's totally cool with Voldemort killing James and Harry as long as Dumbledore saves his Lily. He feels a little entitled to her.

Still, I'd agree that he's not a traditional Nice Guy. He obviously had a different idea of where their relationship was headed than Lily did, and was confused and hurt when she didn't take being the exception to his "kill all the mudbloods" philosophy as the complement it was meant to be. He was bitter, jealous and resentful, but he never resented Lily for rejecting him like a "Nice Guy" would. Instead, he resented James stealing her and Harry for trapping her with James and being proof that James and Lily banged.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 22:46 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 00:40 (UTC) - Expand

DA

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 02:19 (UTC) - Expand

Re: DA

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 08:02 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 02:33 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 05:42 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 06:24 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) 2017-03-20 12:40 am (UTC)(link)
I think it was done purely out of guilt and not any goodness.
ceebeegee: (Default)

[personal profile] ceebeegee 2017-03-23 05:01 am (UTC)(link)
Yep, yep, yep. Agree completely. Snape was a shit, but he NEVER acted like a Nice Guy to Lily--he never trashed her after their friendship ended, or acted like a martyr. There's a snide passage in that shitty HP and the Methods of Rationality fanfic where Snape is painted as a Nice Guy--with whom the reader is clearly meant to sympathize--and it *enraged* me.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 08:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree that he's complex. I'm 100% down with acknowledging that he did good and necessary things. None of that erases the extremely shitty things that he also did, and I am not ever going to come around to the idea that it does.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 08:09 pm (UTC)(link)
tbh, the reason why this became such a thing is because of weird boxed thinking on both sides of the argument. what makes him interesting is that he's not a hero (because he joined the racist murder brigade right after school, because he bullied children for most of his adult life), but he isn't a villain either (because he did go on to spy on the racist murder brigade, and because he did sometimes protect children). his character had aspects of both, and both snape fans and snape bashers kinda need to pay more attention to the halves they don't like.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 08:16 pm (UTC)(link)
First, stop right there with the "JK Rowling knows best" crap. An author can intend a character to comes across a certain way all they want, and have their own intentions with the character, but what's in the text is what's in the text. No one, absolutely no one, is obligated to think Snape is a "good person" because Rowling says so.

Second, obviously Snape did some good things. That's a plot point, after all. He also actually was an abusive bully to the students, and did his best to get Sirius and Lupin's souls sucked out of them. I'm fairly comfortable calling him a fucking asshole. Even fucking assholes can do the occasional heroic or well-intentioned thing.

In short, people have every right to hate Snape and recall more clearly him being a dick the vast majority of the series than an anti-hero. Just like people have the right to like Snape and think his sacrifices make up for the douchebaggery. To each their own.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-20 12:43 am (UTC)(link)
Well said.

Good people can do bad things.

Bad people can do good things.

THAT'S the real nuance, and there's nothing wrong with thinking Snape was a bad person who did some good things.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 08:46 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't know. I reread the books every now and then to relax and in these later years, I keep noticing him pulling random, inappropriate, downright awful shit to his students for no real reason. Like in Book 4, when Hermione's teeth got hit by Malfoy's curse and Snape just said to her, "I see no difference," like he wasn't the authority figure in charge of that situation. What the fuck?

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 21:27 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 21:45 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 21:50 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 21:52 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 21:53 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 21:55 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 22:12 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 00:46 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 22:17 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 22:25 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 22:48 (UTC) - Expand

+1000

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 22:52 (UTC) - Expand

Re: +1000

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 23:00 (UTC) - Expand

Re: +1000

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 23:14 (UTC) - Expand

Re: +1000

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 23:17 (UTC) - Expand

Re: +1000

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 23:31 (UTC) - Expand

Re: +1000

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 23:51 (UTC) - Expand

Re: +1000

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 00:51 (UTC) - Expand

Re: +1000

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 23:18 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 22:54 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 23:18 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 23:25 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 23:25 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 23:27 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 23:53 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 00:07 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 08:51 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 02:18 (UTC) - Expand
randomdrops: (Default)

[personal profile] randomdrops 2017-03-19 10:11 pm (UTC)(link)
I love that this stuff never dies. It goes on and on forever.

(no subject)

[personal profile] mimi_sardinia - 2017-03-20 08:03 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] ceebeegee - 2017-03-23 05:10 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 12:41 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 10:20 pm (UTC)(link)
My biggest problem with this is... I don't like Snape because he's an ass of a character, and my fandom experiences were with people more like OP who just wanted to defend everything he did. I mean, yeah, he did good as well and self-sacraficed himself, but... Eh, he was still an ass. Him doing good doesn't negate that. Those are my feelings about him.

But then people like the OP come around and say, "OMG you just can't appreciate the nuance of this complex anti-hero!"

Ugh. People are allowed to hate characters, regardless of whether they are anti-heroes, complex, written-well or not. There are plenty of reasons someone would like Snape, and plenty of reasons someone wouldn't.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 22:53 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 23:01 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 23:09 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-19 23:40 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 10:44 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

[personal profile] alwaysbeenasmiler - 2017-03-19 23:36 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 10:33 pm (UTC)(link)
This is why sometimes I don't like it when fandom brings up how "problematic" certain characters are or on the opposite side when they try to erase anything they've ever done bad.

Shades between black and white exist.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-20 12:06 am (UTC)(link)
Well, I hate Snape with a fiery passion and don't feel that any of his "good" things were actually done for anything, but selfish reasons so FUCKING JUDGE AWAY.

I'm judging you right back.
philstar22: (Default)

[personal profile] philstar22 2017-03-20 12:14 am (UTC)(link)
I have such mixed feelings about Snape. He wasn't completely evil. He did good things. But he was a teacher bullying students. And that to me is just something that kind of puts him over the edge into more bad than good. But that doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that he did good things.
nanslice: (Default)

[personal profile] nanslice 2017-03-20 12:34 am (UTC)(link)
I hate Snape but I also love him, because he always brings the best wank. Even if at this point it's just recycled wank.

Never change, Potter fandom.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-20 12:41 am (UTC)(link)
It's also possible to hate Snape and "bash" him without thinking he's the worst ever. I hate and bash many characters that I think are worse.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-20 12:43 am (UTC)(link)
He had an extemely shitty personality. People are gonna keep on finding new shitty things Snape said or did.

That's not stupid, it's having an opinion. People also find reasons to to call Harry a shithead. It's not because they don't realize he's the hero.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-20 01:35 am (UTC)(link)
The problem I have with Snape and the way Rowling wrote him was that I never felt like he had a legitimate change of heart - that he understood what he did was evil and wrong.

Even after he called Lily a mudblood, he went and joined up with the Death Eaters anyway.

It seemed like the only reason he ever turned against them was to protect Lily and then to get back at Voldemort for killing her. Not because he saw the error of his ways. He was perfectly happy for Lily's son and husband to be killed by Voldemort and even after Lily died, it didn't seem like Snape really cared about helping/saving anyone so much as he wanted revenge against Voldemort for taking Lily away from him.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 02:02 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 05:35 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 06:38 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 11:26 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 06:45 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 08:44 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 08:48 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) 2017-03-20 06:43 am (UTC)(link)
Surprise! At-risk people who are bullied find it easy to fall into the wrong crowd! Which is exactly what happened with Snape! He found validation and acceptance in the wrong crowd and made continuous bad decisions!

Doesn't change he did horrible things. It happens. He's what happens when you don't treat bullying like an actual concern, and this is why I still don't like James Potter tbh. More or less bullies tend to get away with things, and half the fandom wants to suck James' dick. Which sure, he became a better person. But he still did some awful things and didn't really get in trouble with any of the teachers. :/

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 07:17 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 08:44 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 08:01 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 08:12 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 08:46 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-20 20:29 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2017-03-21 00:03 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) 2017-03-20 08:20 am (UTC)(link)
See, I agree with you. I just see soo many Snape fans excusing all of his bad behavior, while condemning other characters for theirs. I think this can incense those who hate Snape and fans of his more complex character.

Personally, I find him fascinating.

ceebeegee: (Default)

[personal profile] ceebeegee 2017-03-23 05:06 am (UTC)(link)
I actually love Snape as a character, I find him fascinating. But he IS an asshole and a bully, and he is completely to blame for the end of his friendship with LIly.

I detest the Snape apologists. (Not Snape fans--the Snape apologists, those nutters who seem to take any criticism of him personally.) So many of them are so creepily misogynistic--the LIly-bashing drives me nuts. FFS she and her husband DIED because Snape betrayed them, can you give her a break?! The irony is that Snape himself would hate their woobification of him.