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Case ([personal profile] case) wrote in [community profile] fandomsecrets2017-05-15 07:32 pm

[ SECRET POST #3785 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3785 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.



02. [repeat]


[Grey's Anatomy]




[Matthew Daddario]


[Sleepy Hollow]


[Doctor Who]


Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 32 secrets from Secret Submission Post #542.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 12:02 am (UTC)(link)
Ehhh... they're not being super nasty about it, but the "not like other girls" thing is there.

Other fans: "Same five Top 40 songs on every mix"
OP: "Eclectic 2hr mixes that take characters' tastes into account where possible"

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 12:14 am (UTC)(link)
If you want to interpret any complaint about unpopular things being overlooked as actually being a complaint about Other Girls, sure.

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 12:25 am (UTC)(link)
OP is very clearly implying that other mixes aren't as thoughtful or as long as hers, nor are they chosen according to characters' tastes, so it's not solely a question about popular vs. unpopular. The fact that it contrasts an "other girl" fan who for some reason dresses like a schoolgirl from the 1960s or a vintage clothing aficionado vs. the OP, who wears a baggy t-shirt and pants - not an unusual choice in fandom or IRL, I assure you - also carries that hint of "not like other girls".

Perhaps OP didn't mean it that way, but I can definitely see where other users are seeing it.

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 12:28 am (UTC)(link)
Haven't posted ITT but I definitely interpreted it this way as well, FWIW

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 12:30 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, this is how it came across to me as well.

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 12:41 am (UTC)(link)

I get where you're coming from, but I really think that's interpreting the secret in bad faith. I get really sick of people using "oh, you think you're not like the other girls" as a way to dismiss anyone who says anything that even vaguely criticizes something that's trendy. The secret is so self-deprecating that it frustrates me to see people calling OP smug, elitist, or pretentious, or saying that they have nothing to contribute that would be missed, when their secret is such a sad and common one.

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 12:48 am (UTC)(link)
*shrug* I'm not one of the anons who criticized OP as being smug, elitist or pretentious. I think that's a bit too harsh, but at the same time, I can see why the secret set off those alarm bells for some people. Your interpretation may be different, but telling other people that those hints aren't there or that they're reading it that way "in bad faith" is... hrrmm. As if you're saying everyone who disagrees with you is interrogating the text from the wrong perspective (and that yours is the right, generous and good one), get my meaning?

The problem is that the "not like other girls" attitude can be a pretty sneaky thing, and no, portraying yourself as self-deprecating doesn't necessarily mean OP isn't doing it unconsciously. I mean... Taylor Swift's "You Belong to Me" is a classic example of the narrator contrasting herself as a t-shirt and sneakers wearing bystander as opposed to a popular cheerleader who wears short skirts. As if being a non-cheerleader less popular kid is an unusual thing in high school, haha.

While I sympathize with OP, like I said earlier, the two things they seem to want are in direct conflict. Resolving those two conflicting things is going to be tough, but it might help if they were able to take a step back and see that it's not personal, nor is it necessarily a scathing indictment of people who try hard to make unique things.

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 12:49 am (UTC)(link)
NAYRT and I didn't really want to get in on this, because I think it is a little unfair on OP who I'm sure is a fine person BUT -

Just because you're being self-deprecating doesn't mean you can't also be kind of elitist. Like, the secret positions itself in a way where it's self-deprecating in the sense that OP's stuff isn't popular, while simultaneously implying that OP's stuff is fundamentally better than other peoples' stuff and that the only reason other peoples' stuff is more popular is because OP is a bit anti-social. It's the idea that you know what makes *truly* good fan mixes, that you have more substance and skill than other people but just aren't as flashy, etc, etc.

And I really don't want to be harsh about it, because it's fine and it happens and the only reason I recognize it is because I do the same thing. I'm sure a lot of people do it. It's not the end of the world (and whoever said something about "nothing to contribute to the world" is dead wrong). But the secret itself is self-deprecating in a way that's also weirdly self-congratulatory. That's absolutely a true analysis of the secret.

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 01:19 am (UTC)(link)
I don't want to be unfair to OP, so here's this essay on why OP is bad and should feel bad?

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 01:43 am (UTC)(link)
I don't think OP should feel that bad about those things existing, but I also kinda think you have to recognize them for what they are

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 02:13 am (UTC)(link)

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 02:43 am (UTC)(link)
I wouldn't have brought it up in the first place myself, but once you've started talking about it, you can't just pretend that's not what's going out of politeness or whatever. That'd be dishonest. And I personally reckon, even within yourself, self-knowledge is a necessary thing on some level.

And anyway, like I say, it's really not that bad and I really genuinely believe that OP is a lovely person. Having a flaw isn't the end of the world. But when someone points out a flaw, and the flaw does exist, I don't think the reasonable thing to do is to say "no you're wrong that flaw doesn't exist".

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 01:45 am (UTC)(link)
Except that nowhere did AYRT say OP is bad and should feel bad.

And it is quite possible to be self-deprecating and self-congratulatory, because OP manages it nicely. Pointing that out is not the same as saying OP is bad.

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 02:50 am (UTC)(link)
nayrt - I didn't read it that way. The anon ayrt was replying to seemed stuck on the idea that it's not possible to be elitist if you were being self-deprecating and that isn't really true. Elitism isn't necessarily about feeling superior because you have legitimately superior qualities, it's about feeling superior because you believe certain qualities superior - which is fine distinction, but an important one.

This idea isn't uncommon in geek culture. It may have started off as an outcast thing before it transformed into the popular mainstream thing it is today, but we can't deny that there's a segment of geek culture that took pride in being on the fringe. They did it in a more extreme way than the secret does, but it's pretty similar - by belittling what's popular and implying that they were better because they weren't blindly following the crowd. The extreme extreme end of this are fedora wearing atheists and red pillers, BTW.

Now, the secret isn't that rude about it and I don't agree at all with the anons who are calling OP names. But the sentiment is definitely present and it's something the OP may want to watch out for. Feeling isolated and afraid of not fitting in is terrible... but getting so lost in that "everyone is different than me" mindset will only exacerbate that, and stumbling into the "not like other girls" mindset tends to make someone more bitter and alone, not less.

There are tons of girls and women in fandom who like eclectic music, who put effort and thought into works that aren't widely recognized, who like coffee and t-shirts and don't wear pretty dresses or have perfect hair or whatever. I'd argue they outnumber the people on the left side of OP's secret, but they're not always very vocal so it's easy to underestimate just how many of them (of us!) there are.

The whole point of "not like other girls" is that sometimes women get into this mindset where they believe they're special, but "other girls" aren't for whatever reason. That's not true, and it's quite toxic thinking. Those "other girls" are, in fact, just like you. So what I'm saying is the opposite. OP shouldn't feel bad about the things in their secret. But they should realize that they're not as alone as they seem to think.

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 09:03 pm (UTC)(link)
"Those "other girls" are, in fact, just like you."

ILU, nonnie. Yes. This.
phantomas: (Default)

[personal profile] phantomas 2017-05-18 12:28 am (UTC)(link)

(Anonymous) 2017-05-16 01:49 am (UTC)(link)
But the secret itself is self-deprecating in a way that's also weirdly self-congratulatory.

Your whole comment is so spot on, and this bit sums the situation up perfectly.

Honestly, I think if OP had made a secret that said "Most of the fanmixes in my fandom have the same bunch of obvious pop songs. I wish people had better taste in music and tried harder," I wouldn't have agreed with them, because taste is subjective, but I actually would have been less annoyed by the secret, because at least it would have been overt and direct in what it was saying.

But then, like you said, most of us do that self-deprecating but weirdly self-congratulatory thing once in a while, I know I've certainly done it before. F!S is just particularly not having it today.