case: (Default)
Case ([personal profile] case) wrote in [community profile] fandomsecrets2017-07-14 06:43 pm

[ SECRET POST #3845 ]


⌈ Secret Post #3845 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.



__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04. http://i.imgur.com/1zpvB2y.jpg
[linked on OP's request; (illustrated) depictions of violence and torture]


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.
[dance, So You Think You Can Dance, Dancing with the Stars, World of Dance]


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.
[Chicago Fire]


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________



17.


__________________________________________________



18.


__________________________________________________



19.


__________________________________________________



20.


__________________________________________________



21.











Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #550.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

(Anonymous) 2017-07-14 11:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I think stuff like this isn't the war so much as all the Norse/Celtic/etc. poems and such he was an expert in. They had a lot of imagery like that.

(Anonymous) 2017-07-15 12:01 am (UTC)(link)
There were constant rumors about what some of the more fanatical Prussian regiments got up to in WW1 in the back of some of the more horrible smaller battles. The horrible thing is that Tolkien wasn't the only one taking notes, what was propaganda and rumor in WW1 was taken up by the SS in WW2 for bit of real world re-enaction.

(Anonymous) 2017-07-15 12:03 am (UTC)(link)
Were there rumors specifically about the thing we're talking about here?

I know about the German Corpse Factory stuff and I can see that playing into some of the Mordor stuff maybe, but I'm not aware of any rumors or tropes about this specifically.

(Anonymous) 2017-07-15 12:11 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, but if you read any of the poems Tolkien was an expert in (like Beowulf), you can clearly see him drawing from them for a lot of this kind of stuff. If you read his letters and listen to his interviews and stuff, this is clearly what's on his mind when he discusses a lot of the choices he makes for Middle-earth.

I do see his WW1 experience in places like the Dead Marshes and the way he wrote battles and soldiers. But it's a subtle empathy he offers. I wouldn't connect the tortures he portrays as being something coming from his WW1 days. It's just too reminiscent of what you find in the old literature that he was an expert in.

(Anonymous) 2017-07-15 12:15 am (UTC)(link)
I mostly agree with this, but I think "subtle empathy" is just an understatement. It's pervasive in certain parts (especially stuff connected with Mordor, the Ring, and Frodo's Journey - not just the Dead Marshes). Like, tropes and descriptions and characterization and things are all very directly drawn from those experiences.

(Anonymous) 2017-07-15 12:22 am (UTC)(link)
But the Ring was taken straight from Siegfried. He didn't come up with that on his own. I can agree that Frodo coming home at the end and not being able to be healed is something Tolkien took from real world experience but I don't think that has anything to do with extraordinary horrors of war - not like it's presented in this secret.

(Anonymous) 2017-07-15 12:25 am (UTC)(link)
I agree it's not anything to do with what was present in this secret.

I think the fact that the Ring was taken from Siegfried doesn't preclude Tolkien using it in a way that draws on WWI and WWI experiences and tropes. It can be more than one thing at the same time. for me, the fact that it's more than one thing at the same time is part of what makes LOTR so good.

And it's not just the ring but the settings and experiences around the whole ring journey. Just a lot of things drawing on those ideas.

anyway this is a minor disagreement with your very reasonable and sane ideas, i want to be clear about that

(Anonymous) 2017-07-15 12:29 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, I definitely agree that his WW1 experiences are there. When I say subtle empathy, I mean his war experience isn't in the flashy image of a body on a pole or Gelmir getting chopped to pieces (those to me are from literature) but in the empathy he shows in Frodo's storyline. You only get that kind of understanding when all your friends die (as Tolkien's did).

So, I think we're overall in agreement.