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Case ([personal profile] case) wrote in [community profile] fandomsecrets2017-08-10 06:41 pm

[ SECRET POST #3872 ]


⌈ Secret Post #3872 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 07 secrets from Secret Submission Post #554.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-10 10:49 pm (UTC)(link)
That's a shame. Does your friend read much fanfic or original published fic? I see this a lot with people who aren't widely read. It gives them a skewed outlook on what's "fresh" and "original". Of course, what you describe isn't really a big handicap in fandom, from most readers' perspectives.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-10 10:53 pm (UTC)(link)
I love tropey, cliched storylines.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-10 10:58 pm (UTC)(link)
And we have a winner!

Anon!beta, I hear your cry of lament. I do. But damnit the stories I agonize over to make them fresh and interesting have a fraction of the clicks, comments and kudos of the ones written for trope bingos.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-10 11:02 pm (UTC)(link)
I think OPs issue is not that the stories are cliche but that the author thinks they're unique.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-10 11:05 pm (UTC)(link)
If they only inhabit fanfic world then that would definitely skew their perspective. I'm just saying I know better, but still it's often tempting to give in abd get those sweet, sweet kudos.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-10 11:08 pm (UTC)(link)
NAYRT

I think that's perfectly fine. The author gets something out of it, the readers get something out of it, everybody wins because at the end of the day nobody hands out a Booker for a fanfic.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-10 11:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh yeah no doubt. OP probably indulges in trope fic themselves.l because let's face it we all do. Just pointing out the writer is probably not like you.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-10 11:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh man, ALL THAT on the plus column AND an attempt at a plot? ANY plot? Cliched and tropey or not, that is going above and beyond, your friend is a unicorn.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-10 11:30 pm (UTC)(link)
I feel this.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-10 11:32 pm (UTC)(link)
This is only an issue if your friend's fics aren't popular and it's bothering them.

However, tropey fanfic that's well written in all other regards is one of my fondest loves, and it's pretty obvious that many other people in fandom feel the same. So it seems more likely that your friend's fics get plenty of love and there really isn't a problem here, outside of your own personal standards not being met.

As a reader, I feel OP a little

(Anonymous) 2017-08-11 12:06 am (UTC)(link)
I recently ventured into a new fandom, and worked through the archives of a fairly productive writer who has it all: great prose, great characterisation, lovely and natural dialogue... and the tropiest and most predictable plots. I enjoy her writing a lot, but it is honestly a bit frustrating when ALL her stories just choose the easy way out and never even try to surprise the reader.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-11 12:31 am (UTC)(link)
Some people don't like working with a beta, or at least not for anything besides grammar/etc. Some of us want to tell our own damn stories, tropey or not. I don't take input on people about how to write my plots or characters. I just don't, and I'm not the only one.

I think I come at this from a slightly different perspective, because I'm now out of fandom. But there was a time when I spent years just writing the mushiest and most emotional stuff I could, and i really needed that time. I was encouraged a couple of times to be more creative, spend more time on my original fiction, but I'd gotten pretty burned out w/ all of that. I just needed to enjoy writing again, dammit.

And when I was ready, I moved on to more original work. Now I don't need fic at all. When your friend is read, IF your friend is ready, they'll be more original. But you might lose them in your fandom, so be careful what you wish for.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-11 12:34 am (UTC)(link)
It sounds more like they first have to realize they ARE unoriginal before they can consciously choose to be original or not to be original.

"I don't WANT input" is one thing. "My stories are unique and different so I don't NEED input" is another.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-11 12:42 am (UTC)(link)
?

They're writing what they want to write. They're not allowed unless they view themselves exactly correctly (from the friend's point of view)? Also, who's to say how they truly view their writing? Sometimes people put on a lot of bravado to protect themselves. It's no worse than performative humility "oh my writing is so terrible" type thing.

But really. I don't think there's anything wrong with setting their own limits to what they write or how experimental and creative they want to be, or even how they view their work. It's fanfic. Why is the friend so invested in making sure the writer does it properly?

(Anonymous) 2017-08-11 01:05 am (UTC)(link)
I don't know, I'm only pointing out that the situations that you're describing are different.

Someone choosing to write tropey fic because they want to write it isn't the same thing as someone writing tropey fic without realizing it's tropey. Someone loving pop music because they love pop music isn't the same as someone loving pop music without knowing other genres exist. Are they bad? Should they stop? No, but it's clearly not the same situation. One is a choice and the other isn't.

No one mentioned anything about "not allowed" except you.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-11 01:02 am (UTC)(link)
Some people don't like working with a beta, or at least not for anything besides grammar/etc. Some of us want to tell our own damn stories, tropey or not. I don't take input on people about how to write my plots or characters. I just don't, and I'm not the only one.

Oh yeah, lots of people think that. I try to avoid reading their work because writers who feel like they don't need any editing beyond proofreading generally aren't very good. This is true whether its fanfiction or original fic.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-11 01:27 am (UTC)(link)
Completely your right. You have to sort authors some way. I'm not sure you always know, though. (:

(Anonymous) 2017-08-11 01:29 am (UTC)(link)
Also should add it varies for everyone, of course, but for me, writing it not a group project. Trying to take other people's ideas & incorporate them into my story just makes everything turn out worse.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-11 02:32 am (UTC)(link)
LOL, merely being open to editing suggestions doesn't make writing a group project! You still have the final say in deciding whether or not a beta's advice applies or not. But if you close yourself off to constructive feedback, you're shooting yourself in the foot.

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(Anonymous) 2017-08-11 02:28 am (UTC)(link)
nayry, but ayrt did say "generally", and I tend to agree. Authors who refuse to take ANY input about how they write tend to be rather crap at best and no wonder - they've given themselves a serious disadvantage when it comes to improvement! There are no writers who are so perfect and flawless that they're above constructive feedback. None.

In the meantime, I've been in fandom for a long time now and if I had a dollar for every writer who thought that they couldn't possibly take a suggestion from a beta lest their precious "style" or "voice" is compromised... ooh, I could retire and do nothing but read fanfic forever. And those authors? Yeah, they don't have much worth preserving, to be honest. It's more about protecting their egos than their writing. Constructive feedback from a good beta is one of the most valuable resources any writer has. It might not always be pleasant to hear, but it'll help you grow as a writer.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-11 02:41 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, but how many betas are actually qualified to edit and give constructive criticism as opposed to being regular people just like the author who also think they know how to write but may not actually have any more skill just a different opinion of what "good" is?

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Maybe they like those tropey, cliche storylines.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-11 04:08 am (UTC)(link)
A tropey, cliché storyline can be brilliant. And it can be unique in its style and execution.

I don't think any fic writer needs to accept any beta-ing they don't particularly want, especially when it comes to which stories they want to tell.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-11 09:53 pm (UTC)(link)
I can see why it's frustrating, but if they don't want to change they don't want to change.

I mean you have to remember this is a hobby. They're doing this for the fun of it. Unless they're specifically wanting help moving away from predictable plots then maybe you need to just accept that predictable plots are part of why they enjoy writing.

And honestly predictable elements aren't always The Worst. If I pick up a romance book I am not expecting a twist ending where a science ray turns everyone into dogs and nobody cares about romance anymore. I mean sure it would be unpredictable, but that doesn't mean good.

(Anonymous) 2017-08-11 10:37 pm (UTC)(link)
No plot is really original, but the way authors spin them can be