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Case ([personal profile] case) wrote in [community profile] fandomsecrets2017-09-05 06:47 pm

[ SECRET POST #3898 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3898 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.





[Game of Thrones, Tormund/Brienne]


[Anna Faris]


[The Defenders]


[Me Before You/Still Me (novel series) /Book: Still Me by Christopher Reeve]


[James Cameron vs. Patty Jenkins, Wonder Woman]


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[personal profile] fscom 2017-09-05 10:49 pm (UTC)(link)
[James Cameron vs. Patty Jenkins, Wonder Woman]

(Anonymous) 2017-09-05 11:07 pm (UTC)(link)
What annoys me about Cameron's comments is that he was basically saying Wonder Woman was far too perfect, she needed to be knocked down a few pegs. But Wonder Woman was, imo, a successful female power fantasy. She wasn't objectified, she was fierce in a way that female viewers watched and wanted to be. The filming was perfect - no lingering ass shots, no shots of her looking broken and vulnerable, just her being a titan of a person.

It's okay, on occasion, to have characters like that. Unless Cameron has the same criticism to every perfect male superhero, then I don't want to hear it. Not every powerful woman needs to be a bad mother or have body image issues or needs a man to teach her how to love.

(Anonymous) 2017-09-05 11:10 pm (UTC)(link)
cbrachyrhynchos: (Default)

[personal profile] cbrachyrhynchos 2017-09-05 11:29 pm (UTC)(link)

No one's complaining that Thor is a bad aspirational character because he looks beautiful in almost every shot.

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(Anonymous) 2017-09-05 11:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Adding to the list of those who agree with this comment. Very well put.

(Anonymous) 2017-09-05 11:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes. Well said.
nightscale: Pink bg red shirt (Shadowhunters: Magnus Bane)

[personal profile] nightscale 2017-09-05 11:55 pm (UTC)(link)

Honestly having both perfect and imperfect women in media is something I consider a good thing, it's not like we're all the same.
diet_poison: (Default)

[personal profile] diet_poison 2017-09-06 12:13 am (UTC)(link)
+more numbers

very well-put

(Anonymous) 2017-09-06 01:25 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you, yes. I agree with your statement and Patty Jenkins' as well.

love is a powerful thing. Caring is as well. And Wonder Woman did all of that while looking beautiful.

(Anonymous) 2017-09-06 02:21 am (UTC)(link)
Well said. You never hear people complaining that male superheroes aren't good enough because there weren't any lingering shots of them scantily clad and sobbing in the shower after being beaten up or whatever. Cameron's mistake is not in thinking that Sarah Connor is a great female icon, it's in thinking that there's only one way to accomplish it - HIS way.

(Anonymous) 2017-09-09 03:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Well said, Anon.

(Anonymous) 2017-09-05 11:09 pm (UTC)(link)
James Cameron has that dumb beard ring some older guys love. Why do that.

(Anonymous) 2017-09-06 06:00 am (UTC)(link)
Because it looks neat and suits some face shapes. My son has one and he's 22.

/this place is hella ageist.

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(Anonymous) 2017-09-06 10:49 am (UTC)(link)
because mediocre straight men love goatees

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(Anonymous) 2017-09-05 11:18 pm (UTC)(link)
TBH I thought her response was extremely calm and diplomatic!

(Anonymous) 2017-09-05 11:24 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't think Patty Jenkins' response was 'too SJW' at all, and I say that as someone who hates SJWs. I think it's very easy to get locked into an idea of what a 'progressive' woman needs to be - and damn does that get narrow in certain circles - and I'm glad she saw her way out of that thinking.

(Anonymous) 2017-09-05 11:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I liked Patty's response, I think it was a reasonable response to the crap he was spewing. I agree with everything you said of Cameron, OP; he thinks way too highly of himself.

There is definitely room for strong, damaged women, and for Wonder Women, and every other woman in between and outside of those parameters.

(Anonymous) 2017-09-05 11:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Sarah Connor was a feminist icon. Wonder Woman was another kind of feminist icon. It pisses me off that there's so few heroic movies starring women that each one has to be picked apart like that. Once we have as many hero female characters as male characters (including stupid ones!) then we can start picking at the ones we have.

I don't mean this is the sense of personal preference, just in terms of public debate.

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(Anonymous) 2017-09-05 11:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't quite want to put Cameron and Whedon in the same bucket, because I'm pretty sure that Whedon never asked for, "bare tits in every shot, and if we accidentally get a nipple shot, we'll put that in the DVD special features."

Source (past the Avatar pic):

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kamino_neko: Tedd from El Goonish Shive. Drawn by Dan Shive, coloured by Kamino Neko. (Default)

[personal profile] kamino_neko 2017-09-05 11:52 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree with everything you said about what Cameron said. But I'm slightly confused by the comparison to Whedon.

Declaring himself the Arbiter of Feminism is definitely something Joss did (probably won't, going forward, but something he did a lot of in the late 90s/early 2000s), but this is the first time I've seen Cameron doing it...have I missed something?

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I thought her response was pretty measured and diplomatic myself.

(Anonymous) 2017-09-06 01:57 am (UTC)(link)
I love some of Cameron's movies and he does have some awesome female characters, but the dude is kind of a dick and arrogant as all get out. So some of this might be plain ol' sour grapes, in that he thinks that the characters he wrote are the bestest, most feminist, most iconic women ever. I'm honestly not sure anyone has really held him up as a feminist (maybe once, and of course, he did it himself), but more as a filmmaker with powerful women characters, so I'm not sure the Whedon comparison is apt.

(Anonymous) 2017-09-06 02:31 am (UTC)(link)
They're both right and they're both wrong for almost the same reason. However, Cameron needs to stfu for trying to insert himself in a narrative where nobody asked for his male opinion about what female characters need to be to be considered good.
dahli: (Oh pretty boy)

[personal profile] dahli 2017-09-06 04:10 am (UTC)(link)
[James Cameron vs. Patty Jenkins: Dawn of DC]

Honestly I have nothing to add because I agree with all the comments before mine. Sarah Connor is iconic. Same with Wonder Woman. Pitting them against each other is kinda moot because they are both amazing in different ways and people can relate to different parts of them.
Edited 2017-09-06 04:10 (UTC)

(Anonymous) 2017-09-06 07:43 am (UTC)(link)
I did have one complaint about WW and it's a tiny one: she doesn't look strong enough to lift 200 lbs, let alone a tank. Someday, it would be really, really, nice if we could have a seriously buff woman as superhero. But I know that's way out in the future. Muscles, serious muscles, just aren't considered pretty enough for a lead role. So say what you will about being free to choose an attractive, loving, woman superhero, but when I saw Linda Hamilton in T2 for the first time, I literally screamed. Out loud. And I thought she was *beautiful*.

(inb4 someone says Gal Gadot tried to build muscle mass. Yeah, I know. That's the point. Casting.)

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[personal profile] arcadiaego 2017-09-06 11:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Thinking there's only one way to be a heroic woman (and it's the way created by a man) is hardly uber feminist, but he doesn't seem to have noticed that yet.