case: (Default)
Case ([personal profile] case) wrote in [community profile] fandomsecrets2013-09-05 06:24 pm

[ SECRET POST #2438 ]


⌈ Secret Post #2438 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 012 secrets from Secret Submission Post #348.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - sjwtroll ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

(Anonymous) 2013-09-05 10:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, I wouldn't be surprised. Look at Penny.

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(Anonymous) 2013-09-05 10:45 pm (UTC)(link)
When do they ever STAY down, though? Throwing obstacles, even really hard ones, doesn't mean the creator gets off on seeing the character suffer. These characters are strong in part because they come out of harsh situations even stronger. What's the alternative here? Make a Strong Female Character that never experiences hardship? How exactly would that work in his universes? Also not all of his female characters are put through hell in his work, and some of his male characters are. His work relies a lot on seeing the very human side of the various apocalypses (and a few very human issues... The Body, anyone? *sobs*)

But yeah. They are still strong. He never tears them down, he simply throws plot at them and they recover from it.
kaijinscendre: (Default)

[personal profile] kaijinscendre 2013-09-05 10:45 pm (UTC)(link)
I think he likes tearing all his characters down. It isn't like he doesn't do the same to all of them.

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elephantinegrace: (Default)

[personal profile] elephantinegrace 2013-09-05 10:46 pm (UTC)(link)
How would you be able to tell if a character is strong or not if the character is not torn down? Besides, ordinary life makes for boring stories. It takes a conflict to actually set up a plot.

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+1000

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(Anonymous) 2013-09-05 10:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah. So?

(Anonymous) 2013-09-05 10:56 pm (UTC)(link)
idk he kind of tears down...everyone...so...

(Anonymous) 2013-09-05 10:57 pm (UTC)(link)
He does this to all his characters. He writes interesting women just like he writes interesting men. He likes to use big dramatic heartbreaking conflicts to show the different facets of his characters.

I'm kinda tired of people trying to loop this around and make him look like a misogynist. He's not perfect, but no one is.

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(Anonymous) 2013-09-05 10:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I think "strong female characters" in general have always ended up being torn down. Just look at old Victorian novels; woman starts out being all feminist, by the end she's drowning herself. It's weird and uncomfortable when you think about it.

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ladysugarquill: (Default)

[personal profile] ladysugarquill 2013-09-05 11:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes he does. That's called drama.

(He does it to his male characters too, just look at Angel, Xander, Spike, Doctor Horrible, motherfucking Wash, everyone on Dollhouse. He even did it (properly)to the Hulk).
Edited 2013-09-05 23:13 (UTC)
kelincihutan: (Default)

[personal profile] kelincihutan 2013-09-05 11:06 pm (UTC)(link)
I mostly agree with what everyone else has said. This just strikes me as a very cynical way to approach Whedon's work. There are a lot of things to admire and criticize in his writing, but he's not any more particularly cruel to female characters than he is to male ones.
Edited 2013-09-05 23:07 (UTC)

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(Anonymous) 2013-09-05 11:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah. So?

(Anonymous) 2013-09-05 11:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, Buffy kicked unholy ass, Zoe was Mal's Terminatrix-like enforcer, Faith begat Echo and Echo is the baddest ass Kung Fu Whore TV has ever seen, and yet, aside from the fact these girls have done some push ups and punched masculinity in its shriveled balls time and again, the idea that Whedon is some sort of hyper-feminist stinks as bad as Eliza Dushku's "acting."

Joss shoots his actresses most lovingly when they're wet and crying and curled up in the fetal position, pressed up against a wall, broken, mascara running, bleeding, and reaching out. And what are they typically reaching out for? Some dude (or vampire or werewolf) and the dick he's attached to.

That's it. That's as complex as it gets. Sound familiar? That's because it's also the image of women we get from every other movie or show written by men. And yet when a lisping nerd who tritely describes himself as "a lesbian in a man's body" does it to a high-school cheerleader, it's "feminist." This is like when Toni Morrison called Bill Clinton "The First Black President." You could only say such a thing if you were THAT willing to settle. His two most artistically successful shows are Angel and Firefly, both centered on men, and written from a male point of view. If I wanted to be glib (and I usually do) Angel and Firefly worked because they're basically " Batman in LA" and "Han Solo, the TV Show," respectively.


http://www.cracked.com/article/166_5-reasons-it-sucks-being-joss-whedon-fan/

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chardmonster: (Default)

I only like narratives where the strong female character

[personal profile] chardmonster 2013-09-05 11:10 pm (UTC)(link)
is consistently strong throughout the series--unwaveringly moving toward her objective without letting petty emotional bullshit get in the way.

This is my my favorite show is Dora the Explorer.

stupid question but

(Anonymous) 2013-09-05 11:12 pm (UTC)(link)
who is this guy?

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(Anonymous) 2013-09-05 11:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, please. I am tired of the mentality that you have to treat female characters with kid gloves. Fuck that. I want to see female characters treated the same way as male characters, that is being dragged through the mud and growing from that. If I have a "strong female character," I want her to prove that she IS that title and not just have the writer tell me she is.
kallanda_lee: (Mystique Mirror)

[personal profile] kallanda_lee 2013-09-05 11:34 pm (UTC)(link)
As someone who tears characters (of all genders) down - he probably does it because it's interesting. It's part of what I love about GoT, too. If your life gets completely turned upside down you're forced to do things you wouldn't normally do, in ways you wouldn't have imagined before.

Simply strong characters are, well, boring.

So, I wouldn't be surprised it he tears them down on purpose. But I'm not sure if that has anything about his relationship to women. I think he just knows it makes for interesting story-writing.

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saturnofthemoon: (Faith)

[personal profile] saturnofthemoon 2013-09-05 11:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, this so much!

Secret 7 - Joss Whedon

[personal profile] transcriptanon 2013-09-05 11:51 pm (UTC)(link)
[Picture is the director, producer, writer, composer and actor Joss Whedon. He is a man with light skin and reddish-brown-blond hair. He has a beard and mustache and a receding hairline.]

I sometimes wonder if part of the reason he creates strong female characters is because he enjoys tearing them down.

(Anonymous) 2013-09-06 12:12 am (UTC)(link)
I'm pretty sure he has some kind of impalement fetish.

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(Anonymous) 2013-09-06 01:27 am (UTC)(link)
I'm pretty sure that's why he does it. One or two "tear downs", okay, story and character arc and all that. More than three? Four? It's a fucking fetish (either that or he's so one-note he can't tell another kind of story). He cloaks it in "feminism" and all that but at the end of the day, I think he gets off on it.

Probably some form of revenge against all the girls in high school who didn't look twice at him.

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darkmanifest: (Default)

[personal profile] darkmanifest 2013-09-06 01:40 am (UTC)(link)
I'm starting to feel that's part of why a lot of people create or love strong characters. You see a reflection of it in fandom, where the most popular and beloved characters are usually also the ones that people most want to see graphically torn apart. It might stand out more with female characters because of the particular methods used to break them down, usually the story aims at the vagina or obliterates their psyche somehow, or both (hi, Cordelia). Not one of my kinks, so of course I'm sick of seeing it, but Whedon doesn't seem unique, there, just a more prolific example.
intrigueing: (Default)

[personal profile] intrigueing 2013-09-06 02:06 am (UTC)(link)
This is definitely a repeat.

(Anonymous) 2013-09-06 02:47 am (UTC)(link)
I do find the way Joss tears down his female characters particularly fetishistic, especially his obsession with rape and sexualized violence and women getting their psyches shattered by men.

But I really just wish writers in general would stop turning to rape as Something That Happens to Women and using it as the first go-to device to emotionally destroy a female character, it gives me the heebies.

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IA

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Got it in one!

(Anonymous) 2013-09-06 05:22 am (UTC)(link)
Yep.