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Case ([personal profile] case) wrote in [community profile] fandomsecrets2017-03-19 03:29 pm

[ SECRET POST #3728 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3728 ⌋

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(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 10:17 pm (UTC)(link)
That just makes him a shitty teacher. We all had those.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 10:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Some of us had precious little else.

Shitty teacher, temp teacher, shitty teacher again. That is all the school could afford. That and fantastic sports facilities.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 10:48 pm (UTC)(link)
And that makes them not shitty people...?


(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 10:52 pm (UTC)(link)
seriously, what the fuck? teachers who bully their students aren't acceptable, they're shit in real life just like they're shit in fiction.

Re: +1000

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 11:00 pm (UTC)(link)
just some snarky guy casually sabotaging the kids' futures, what's the big deal????


Re: +1000

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 11:14 pm (UTC)(link)
He isn't sabotaging anyone. The muggleborns will still have to pick their marriage partners well, with an eye to fitting into the existing network, and the non-muggle borns will fall back on their preexisting family connections or follow their parents into their line of work. Same as always. Hogwarts is not for learning, it is for networking. Same as Eton or Rugby.

Re: +1000

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 11:17 pm (UTC)(link)
marriage partners???

Re: +1000

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 11:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Like the Granger-Weasleys or the Evans-Potters. Muggleborn girls are studying for their M.R.S and muggleborn boys should be on the look out for a nice dowry. You'd be amazed how little marriage had to do with love until very recently. A nice prospect was always more appealing.

Re: +1000

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 11:51 pm (UTC)(link)
lmao you shine you crazy diamond

Re: +1000

(Anonymous) 2017-03-20 12:51 am (UTC)(link)
And then, I thought: why not reference historical marriage practices among the middle and upper classes in a discussion about ethics? This will be the linchpin in my argument, surely. No one can deny the link between abusive teachers and advantageous matches. Historically speaking, of course.

Re: +1000

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 11:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Dude this isn't

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 10:54 pm (UTC)(link)
And an asshole. So he's a shitty teacher and an asshole, and a lot of people hate him a character for these qualities.

I don't understand this "just a bad teacher" justification anyway. Obviously it's not on par with being a wizard nazi, but it is pretty condemnable by almost any standards.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 11:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Not saying he's not an asshole. You can be an asshole and do good things. You can be a nice person to everyone's face while stabbing them in the back.

I'm saying that the OP of this secret is right in that everyone's so quick to go, "Oh Snape is terrible and irredeemable and has no good qualities."

Yes he was a shit teacher. Those are a dime a dozen.

Yes he was an asshole. Also a dime a dozen.

Was he irredeemably evil? No.

Was he nuanced? Yes.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 11:25 pm (UTC)(link)
So...because shit teachers and assholes are common, we're not allowed to say that they're terrible? I don't get it.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 11:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, OP is talking about 'Snape bashing', which could mean any number of things. I don't think he's irredeemably evil, but then again I also don't think even his haters can say that -- that's a fairly absolutist view that would be hard to defend textually. But if people say that they hate his character because he was a crappy person then... they're not wrong.

Again, your 'dime a dozen' argument seems to be an attempt to trivialize his flaws by portraying them as banal qualities... but so what? We're not arguing that Snape was unique in his dickishness? He just was a dick, and that's enough for a lot of people.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 11:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Again, your 'dime a dozen' argument seems to be an attempt to trivialize his flaws by portraying them as banal qualities... but so what? We're not arguing that Snape was unique in his dickishness? He just was a dick, and that's enough for a lot of people.


(Anonymous) 2017-03-19 11:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Eh, I don't mean to trivialize them, because they ARE flaws for sure. They're banal in the sense that they're flaws a LOT of people have though.

I don't generally pick sides in this fight mostly because I find Snape was very inconsistently written (like a lot of the characters, and I say this as a fan of the series), I just find that I'd rather deal with someone who tries to see the good in Snape rather than someone who stands their with their virtual arms folded all, "Nope. He was an asshole to kids so clearly anything good he ever did is irrelevant." which I see a lot.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-20 12:07 am (UTC)(link)

What if someone hates every character with those flaws though? Just because they're common flaws doesn't make them less unlikeable.

Also, I'd personally rather deal with someone who says "he did do good but he also did a LOT of bad" than someone who tries to downplay the shitty things he did just because "oh he's a HERO though, so it doesn't matter that he was a shitty person" as if the two can't exist at the same time.

(Anonymous) 2017-03-20 08:51 am (UTC)(link)
Are they really THAT common? I think people being cruel to kids whom they have power over is definitely something that we as society take exception to.

It just goes back to my original point, really. Snape's good side is very well-explained in the books: he fought Voldemort out of love for Lily. Okay. And some of his bad qualities are justified too: he was bullied by Harry's dad so he hates Harry, he had a bad home life so he turned to the dark side. Still fine so far. But throughout the books, his behavior to his student crosses the line seemingly for no good reason; it never seemed like he had any cause to treat Neville or Hermione the way he did in many of those situations. Pointlessly cruel, and that's what tips the character from 'nuanced' to 'kind of obviously a dick' to me.