I felt pretty shitty about my comment and I regretted making it, but that's honestly how your preceeding comment, and other comments you've made in this thread, read to me. At what point does manipulation become abuse? At what point is a lie so big that it effectively removes the ability of the other person to consent?
I'm not saying that you specifically are in denial about having been raped, I'm saying that that's how I read your comment. I'm glad I was wrong, and I should never have brought it up in the first place. But the things you're saying are harmful and dismiss and minimize the experiences of women who WERE raped. And in my experience (which is not exhaustive by any means) a lot of women who minimize and dismiss the experiences of other women have had an experience that was NOT consentual, but they have decided (that's not the right word, but I'm tired) that what happened to them definitely wasn't rape, it couldn't have been rape... and therefore isn't rape if it happens to another woman.
I believe you when you say all the sex you've had has been consentual... you're lucky. But there are uncounted thousands of women who are having or have had sex that to an outside observer would look exactly like the sex you had when you just weren't interested but wanted your partner to have a good time... but they knew if they tried to say no their abusive partner would get more violent, or they were too drunk to realize what was happening, or they were sick with the flu and gave in after hours of increasingly angry cajoling by their boyfriend for sex because they just wanted it to stop. Is any of that really consenting? Do you have any idea how many women who've been raped feel that there's no point in going to the police or even telling a friend about what happened to them because they have been bombarded all their lives by attitudes like yours, and they know that rather than being supported they'll be doubted at every turn for not having fought back enough, for having kissed him, for having gotten into a cab with him, for having been able to have a conversation with him in their group of mutual friends the next day, for not having divorced him... every single action they took or did not take will be second-guessed because of attitudes like yours.
Okay, here's the thing. You don't have to have a ten minute conversation about every sex act in order to obtain consent. No one is even saying that for god's sake.
But put yourself in the shoes of these guys you keep bringing up who somehow don't know that what they're doing is rape... If that's what it took, wouldn't a ten minute conversation be worth it, if it meant you knew for sure that you weren't raping someone?
no subject
I'm not saying that you specifically are in denial about having been raped, I'm saying that that's how I read your comment. I'm glad I was wrong, and I should never have brought it up in the first place. But the things you're saying are harmful and dismiss and minimize the experiences of women who WERE raped. And in my experience (which is not exhaustive by any means) a lot of women who minimize and dismiss the experiences of other women have had an experience that was NOT consentual, but they have decided (that's not the right word, but I'm tired) that what happened to them definitely wasn't rape, it couldn't have been rape... and therefore isn't rape if it happens to another woman.
I believe you when you say all the sex you've had has been consentual... you're lucky. But there are uncounted thousands of women who are having or have had sex that to an outside observer would look exactly like the sex you had when you just weren't interested but wanted your partner to have a good time... but they knew if they tried to say no their abusive partner would get more violent, or they were too drunk to realize what was happening, or they were sick with the flu and gave in after hours of increasingly angry cajoling by their boyfriend for sex because they just wanted it to stop. Is any of that really consenting? Do you have any idea how many women who've been raped feel that there's no point in going to the police or even telling a friend about what happened to them because they have been bombarded all their lives by attitudes like yours, and they know that rather than being supported they'll be doubted at every turn for not having fought back enough, for having kissed him, for having gotten into a cab with him, for having been able to have a conversation with him in their group of mutual friends the next day, for not having divorced him... every single action they took or did not take will be second-guessed because of attitudes like yours.
Okay, here's the thing. You don't have to have a ten minute conversation about every sex act in order to obtain consent. No one is even saying that for god's sake.
But put yourself in the shoes of these guys you keep bringing up who somehow don't know that what they're doing is rape... If that's what it took, wouldn't a ten minute conversation be worth it, if it meant you knew for sure that you weren't raping someone?