fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2673 ]

[ SECRET POST #2673 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2673 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 055 secrets from Secret Submission Post #382.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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As long as you aren't saying RTD should come back with his racist, Rose/Doctor-centric hot mess where good characters are sidelined in favor of the writer's pet ship and the ending was more a melodramatic good-bye to himself than the character and angst was the driving plot for anything.

What tha????

Have we forgotten the Moments of Awesome Mickey and Martha had on the show anon?

Like how the two black people had to pair up rather than end up with a whitey, or how the black man was used as the bumbling comic relief? Or how the black family were the ones that got hoodwinked by the white villain? Yeah they did so well out of that.

Like all the Clippers players and coach got hoodwinked by that Donald Sterling fellow?

I am 100% sure you are bringing American racial politics into a situation where they do not apply. Fucking chill, SJW, shit is different in the UK.

Yes, the girl sidelined as a character for the sake of Ten/Rose and the boy who literally became a Nice Guy (TM) and left two entire universes because he couldn't have Rose, both of which who had to end up together out of nowhere despite one of them previously being engaged to a white man we actually saw her interact with to some degree and who disappeared without a goddamn trace.

To be fair, Rose left a universe for her man too. RTD's Who just seemed to have immature ideas about relationships across the board.

She didn't willingly leave a universe to get away from him/because she couldn't have him. Any leaving was always temporary and it was made clear she was trapped there because she couldn't hold on to the lever. What temporary leaving she did do was... To help where she could. I can't blame her for that one, even if the writing was extremely weird. It was nothing compared to Mickey's, "There's nothing left for me here, especially not Rose."

That's one way of reading it, but the fact that her happy ending was being given a David Tennant clone suggests that not being able to live without a man was what they were going for.

Exactly. Which is why I hate it when people say RTD was better.

Martha, Donna and Rose all were subject to sexism in the writing process, Martha just had racism heaped on top. They were all tools for his angst, and I'm sorry, but Mickey is unforgivable to me, too, because it was ~such a good idea~ to take the only black guy in the show at the time and make him the rival for Rose's affection to the point that he would leave two universes to get away from her, whining about how he couldn't have her the whole way.

Mickey spent most of his time whining about how he couldn't have Rose. His badassery was motivated by wanting her.

Martha, as badass as she could be, was relegated to unrequited love interest who was treated horribly for the sake of Rose/Ten.

Have you forgotten how shittily Rose and Ten treated Mickey?

Not to mention how terrible Ten treated Martha at times.

SA

Nine also treated Mickey pretty badly too.

THANK YOU. I think all the hate for Moffat has blinded people to the fact that RTD wasn't flawless perfection.

If I could have a new writer who is neither of them, I'd be happy, but a lot of people who decry Moffat seem to want RTD back, so. :T

Probably because for all of RTD's problems, they weren't that bad? Like, sidelining a black female character in favour of a ship but... also giving her kickass agency to say "fuck this" and leave of her own free will and be awesome? Sorry, but Martha is my favorite and I hate all this shit about her being badly written because I can acknowledge the writing wasn't always kind to her but she was the ONLY recent companion to choose her own ending, and I think that's amazing and gets underplayed in order to rant about how RTD made her into the third wheel.

Agreed with all of this. Martha is my favorite companion from NuWho and it really bugs me how people forget that she had quite a lot of agency. Especially in regards to her ending.

I want to love Martha. But having a character with such potential sidelined for a pet ship, written to love the Doctor and only leaving because she was sick of being second best kind of really pisses me off. You may not see it as that bad, but as the only Comapanion who wasn't white, she was vastly underutilized. It doesn't matter to me that she chose her own ending, she was still the subject of some pretty fucking horrid racism in regards to how much she was sidelined for a character who wasn't even there anymore.

I'd also say she didn't so much choose her own ending since she quit being a nurse or doctor and chased after aliens still, showing the Doctor still had a firm grip on her from afar. Not to mention the fact that, when she did come back, she was kidnapped, cloned and used by the villains.

This. Fucking thank you. So much this.

Martha never left. She wrapped her existence around the Doctor even after she left him. All she did was physically leave. She even left him a fucking cell phone, saying he better come if she calls. Then she deliberately put herself in a job where she'd inevitably run into him again. And in that job, she made a blatant mistake that she should have known not to make. "Oh gee, a higher up wants to meet me in a random far from witnesses, undocumented location and my escorts are acting a little off, oh well, clearly nothing!" And then she spent half of the fucking arc kidnapped while her ~evil clone~ did shit. She was finally released in the final episode of Ten's run.

Davies wasn't any better, he was just a fuck ton more subtle about it which is way more dangerous.

It's not a choice between one or the other. There are other writers in the universe. Having said that, RTD never wrote anything as awful as that last Christmas episode. Or repeatedly insulted women, including the looks of someone who worked for him.

Edited 2014-04-29 21:29 (UTC)

Which makes RTD more dangerous to me. At least outright awful is going to be called out. I've had conversations where I had to point out what RTD did and why it was racist or sexist.

"At least he didn't X!"

No, but he did some equally shitty things that were a lot more subtle and people are dismissive of, and a lot of fandom decries Moffat and holds RTD up high. Which is why I bring him into it a lot of the time.

And also, no, fuck you, because wanna know what he DID do? He took a character who grew and then nuked her development. For the sake of the Doctor's precious fucking manpain. The Doctor didn't even try to find a way to selectively wipe memories, he just nuked it all. Against her consent because Donna would have rather died the woman she became than go back to being the woman she was. And we're supposed to be happy with the bullshit ending of her getting married and having money because IT'S A HAPPY ENDING!!!! Not it's fucking not the Doctor fucking killed Donna. Oh, and let's not forget: even Jack fucking Harkness didn't flirt with her and he flirts with everyone.

RTD took a woman and constantly made her about wanting to impress the Doctor, not about her own curiosity. And it got so bad that she made a whole, huge speech about getting out and leaving him because it was bad for her, then she chose a profession that would put her in the Doctor's path and left him a cell phone. And when she came back, she was fucking kidnapped in a situation she definitely should have known better about just so her ~~~evil clone~~~ could do stuff to make the plot work. And then, she breaks up with the fiance she had just so she can get together with the only other black person on the show. And that's just the surface of my rage there.

And Rose. Rose who was basically fucking fridged to make the Doctor have manpain. Rose who became a fucking object in the rivalry between two men. Rose who was brought back time and again in nonsensical ways to save the Doctor because he is literally the single most important person in her life, fuck the fact that he got her into this fucking mess in the first place. She became and object to which the Doctor compared every companion. She was a thing put on a pedestal and would randomly gain knowledge as needed with no goddamn explanation. And that's just the surface.

But sure. It wasn't that bad a run, despite being steeped in sexism and racism.

And also, no, fuck you

Sure, ok whatever. I don't know what comment you think you're replying to, but it's not mine.

LOL. yes RTD was worse than Moffat.

You're funny.

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[ SECRET POST #2673 ]

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