fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2686 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2686 ⌋

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(reply from suspended user)

I'm sorry, but you are reaching here with your "omg government control!" thing. Yes those things are horrible, but YOU brought them up, not OP or anyone agreeing with them.

Who do think would make the decision that welfare mom isn't allowed to have any more kids? Assuming governmental control of reproduction is the logical progression of a discussion of the opinion that reproduction should be regulated.

I was going to leave it because this is one of those agree to disagree issues apparently, but this is also an issue I feel pretty strongly about (and I don't feel strongly about much) so I'm having a hard time staying away. I have known and know so many "sterilize the welfare moms with five kids" kind of people and that's the vibe I'm getting from this. You can't just say "I think people shouldn't have kids they can't afford" and not expect the next question to be "who decides you can afford them?"

Well, yes, it goes without saying that I find it decidedly disturbing that people don't believe or realize that reproductive rights are fundamental human rights. I'm honestly so shocked that someone might suggest otherwise that I have a hard time wrapping my brain around it.

I'm just glancing through but I'm glad that I seem to have missed most of this discussion. (Because it is scary... and Ayn Rand-ish. And I strongly dislike both of those things.)

I find it interesting, though, that it doesn't seem to have crossed anyone's mind that in removing every couple's right to get pregnant, you're also removing their right NOT to reproduce. The natural extension of "These groups won't reproduce because of X, Y, and Z" is "But these other groups have to make up the difference in the future workforce."

And that's some stone cold dystopia shit right there.

This! That's why I'm of the firm belief that abortion should remain legal even has most states in the US try to outlaw it. Limiting a woman's right to abortion cuts off their reproductive choices as well.

I'm really glad that you and stella are here but I also get you wanting to leave because holy shit.

I'm so pissed off right now. These people really do not see how this shit can be abused, and it's absolutely horrifying, because IT HAS ACTUALLY BEEN ABUSED BEFORE.

Very true.

Dude. YOU (not just you, you and Stella and some anons) brought the regulation thing to the table. Not the anon who started the thread, not me, and not any anon agreeing with OP of thread. It's an OPINION about when it is and isn't a good idea to have kids, and it was made clear that nobody is trying to apply that to regulation or that we think it SHOULD be regulated. How much clearer do you need us to be??

It's relevant, but it wasn't approached the right way, imo.

What should happen:

person A: "I have this opinion."
person B: "Do you think that opinion should be legislated?"

What actually happened:

person A: "I have this opinion."
person B: "Wait, you think that should be legislated? What? That's insane?"
person A: "bwuh?"

No, that is not reaching. When we start talking about rights (and the anon stella replied to was questioning the idea that having kids is a right, btw), then we are starting to talk about government control. The entire notion of rights revolves around what a government can or cannot compel a person to do or not do.

If you believe that having children is not a right, then it follows that you believe that it's perfectly reasonable for a society, and therefore a government, to restrict how and when people can reproduce.

Ok, I see where you are coming from with that.

I guess I don't think that saying something shouldn't be controlled by the government means that I automatically think it must be a right, so to me, saying something isn't a fundamental right doesn't automatically mean I think it should be government-controlled.

And I don't think this should be government-controlled. I think that is a terrible idea for a number of reasons. I just have an opinion that there are situations where I think it's irresponsible to have a kid - especially situations where the parents are only having it for their own sake.

I know you and I don't always agree, but I'm agreeing you in this thread.

Reproduction should never be regulated, but goddamn do I wish so many people in unfortunate situations would THINK about what bringing a child in would mean.

And fucking hell we need more and more free birth control, for men AND women.

Ugh it's a giant mess.

Yes.

Thanks. :)

do you think this applies to women across the world and in every culture, religion and class?

you can't really compare the situations in a lot of countries to places like the us, the uk, canada, etc. though. there are still large portions of the world that have very limited access to contraception, abortion and women's healthcare and where having children often isn't a choice women get to make for whatever reason. in those places, the bigger issue is women having the right to choose not to have children if they don't want them.

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