fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2718 ]

[ SECRET POST #2718 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2718 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Pacific Rim]

Notes:

Might be another 12 am day. Response time will be slow, sorry.

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 016 secrets from Secret Submission Post #388.
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Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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Attachment parenting? Like, using a lot of physical affection with a baby/toddler? Is that what it is? Nothing wrong with that (though some organizations warn of dangers against sleeping with infants, mainly accidentally killing them iirc)

But homeschooling? Yes. I am anti-homeschooling unless the actual schools available are somehow dangerous or unaffordable. Homeschooling is actually illegal in several countries, and frankly, that's fair. It doesn't mean every homeschooled kid is abused or whatever. But all kids should have access to a common curriculum (especially one that includes the sciences, which religious homeschooling often ignores) - not to mention access to their peers and community.

In my state, everyone who homeschools has to administer a state-standardized test to their children to make sure they're educated properly.

I'm not sure if it's a law or not, but I also know that it's at least HIGHLY encouraged that all homeschooled kids have some sort of peer community involvement -- team sports, or something along those lines. I'm not sure about the specifics because it wasn't in my own family.

I was friends with a homeschooled girl who knew a shit load more than I ever learned in public school.

Congratulations?

now meet a few kids whose parents forced them to learn Creationism and biblical history, instead of actual science and actual history.

Okay but like, that's not homeschooling that does that. Those are homeschoolers that choose to teach those specific things. Not homeschooling in general. So getting rid of homeschooling isn't going to do anything about that. Also, there are kids who go to school and still learn that stuff at home.

But homeschooling enables those kind of parents.

And children can be sent to church schools that teach Bible Studies and Creationism. I suppose the difference is that they also teach history and science, usually in the formal classes set, while Creationism comes up in Bible class.

As one who was homeschooled and whose many nieces and nephews were homeschooled, I get your point about homeschool because most people who do it are not qualified to teach. However, I have to disagree with your assessment that making it illegal is fair because I think that it's important to retain as many rights as one can, even if that means you have some jackasses making stupid choices.

My main argument would be that children have rights, too - they have rights to a real education. They have the right to learn real science and history, and have access to qualified teachers. I think every child has the right to a basic education, and that trumps a parent's right to be ignorant and raise their child in ignorance. And an enormous amount of homeschoolers, if not the majority, do it for religious reasons.

In theory, if qualified individuals homeschooled their children, through all the subjects, kept them standardized... that's a little less problematic, though I think there's a lot of value in separating academic growth from parents (in that there's a lot of opportunity for bias, sheltering kids, and not giving them their own space to grow). Still, there certainly are homeschooled kids who are well-developed and had overall positive experiences, so it is possible.

But the guidelines for homeschooling, at least in the US, are too vague. And the very real possibility of what I see as trampling upon children's rights makes me fully okay with banning it, or at least partially.

All right and I can get with that, kids definitely should have a right to a decent education but a big deal in the US, my hometown so to speak, is religious freedom. So if somebody wants to homeschool their kid for religious reasons, while that education may not be worth a damn, you can't force them to public/private school without trespassing their religious freedom.

But religious freedom ends when it impedes on someone else's rights. You don't have religious freedom to perform human sacrifice to the god of your choice, or throw rocks at gay people, or beat your wife.

Right to education comes down to separation of church and state, imo. The state guarantees children have a right to an education.

I'm not saying you're not allowed to teach your kid creationism or whatever. But to me, a line is crossed when you refuse to put your kid in public school because you don't even want to expose them to the alternative.

I don't know. I feel ambivalent about this.

Well then, the point there is a "sensible education" is one where the child gets taught the standard curriculum of science and history, and still get Creationism as part of the bible lessons.

Hell, even a church school will do that. I know my own education basically had my teachers saying "Well we don't believe this stuff, but you have to learn about it anyway!".

My parents homeschooled me for religious reasons but they still taught "real" science and history...idk where people get the idea that just because someone is religious they're making a warding-off sign against evil and clutching their pearls every time someone says something about THAT HEATHEN SCIENCE OMG

And do you seriously think that the majority of publicly-schooled kids, certainly in the US, are learning everything they need to know (from 'qualified teachers'), are given 'space to grow', and that there isn't bias? Le please.

"idk where people get the idea that just because someone is religious they're making a warding-off sign against evil and clutching their pearls every time someone says something about THAT HEATHEN SCIENCE OMG"

Gee, I wonder. Maybe it's because lunatics like that exist, and in numbers, too? And there's plenty of them in our government, even, doing their best to equate creationism with science, discredit global warming and get prayer back in classrooms?

And, what were the religious reasons your parents homeschooled you, I wonder?

Sure, there's good teachers and bad teachers. But they need certain qualifications to teach in the first place. Unlike a homeschooling parent. And at least, a child in school is likely to be exposed to a number of teachers, and more likely exposed to various opinions rather than just one. "Learning everything they need to know" - at least they are, or should be, required to learn state set standards. Homeschooling can mean about anything.

I just...gee. I'm just wondering how many homeschooling families have you personally known? 'cause there's a lot of 'everyone knows' in your post that hasn't actually been my experience at all.

For example, the idea that homeschooled kids are exposed to just one opinion. Aside from the fact that I read books (constantly, voraciously) from all kinds of people with all kinds of points of view, I took outside classes in science and writing and sports and such, it wasn't like I was locked up at home all day (in fact I probably spent more time out and about than kids locked up in school all day). And since when are kids expected or encouraged to express varying opinions in public school?

Hey, the global warming denial isn't religion-based. That's aaaaaaaaaaall about the money.

+1000

I was homeschooled because the schools down in Florida were absolute shit for special needs kids (i.e. my sister got sexually harassed and was nearly struck by kids throwing chairs, my brother was forced into an infantilizing kindergarten-esque setting with kids who were severely autistic), and my mom had no choice but to homeschool my brother and sister. I just went along with it, and tbh, I'm glad I did. And fwiw, my brother went back to public school for high school when we moved back to our current state, because the special education programs had gotten much better since we originally left.

And yes, we learned "real" science and history... religion was just something that had always been around in my family, so it wasn't really part of the curriculum, per se.

Edited 2014-06-13 01:32 (UTC)

(I'm the homeschool anon upthread)

This is why my parents homeschooled me. When I was in middle school, I was bullied for being/appearing gay and I started self-mutilating. Going to a different school didn't help anything because I got that kind of thing at a poor inner city school and at an affluent school further out (where girls honestly threw rocks at me). Ultimately, my mother was frightened for my mental health and when the school year ended, she decided to homeschool me instead. So, yeah, there are a lot of reasons for parents homeschooling.

DA

If it's vague guidelines that are the real problem, then let's fix that instead of talking about banning things. Plenty of public schools have issues of their own.

This.

If there wasn't so many issues with public schools, then there wouldn't be so many people turning to homeschooling as an alternative.

(Also, Ignorant Homeschooling Anon? There's secular groups who homeschool, too, so not everything homeschool-related is strictly religion-based. Do some research.)

With all due respect, your ignorance is showing on that last part.

I know plenty of homeschooling families here in town who have social groups and even outside-the-home class meet-ups. The kids all run together in groups, and they get plenty of social interaction even outside of that, by participating in sports and summer clubs at the local university (that offer things like science and history) and museums, or things like church groups.

So don't make ignorant assumptions that all homeschooled kids have no access to peers and community.

Edited 2014-06-13 01:30 (UTC)

Plenty of homeschooled kids have access to peers and community.

But they are not guaranteed that.

School may guarantee a minimum level of interaction with peers, but it doesn't guarantee kids a community.

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[ SECRET POST #2718 ]

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