[ SECRET POST #2725 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2725 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 018 secrets from Secret Submission Post #389.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Poverty and "luxury items" - a discussion

[iceyred]

"There is an item out there and I want it and I deserve it whether I can afford it or not." Is entitlement and it is far more damaging than an economic situation. Economic situations can change. New jobs, loss of a job, medical emergency, death in the family, windfall, etc. can all change the economic situation. I'm related people who made gobs of money and who blew it on cars, houses, lawyers, bail, drugs (mostly drugs), and stupid shit. Now they're on welfare.

Re: Poverty and "luxury items" - a discussion

[(Anonymous)]

Disabled people who can't physically leave their houses should never be allowed to watch television or read books or go on the internet or listen to music, they should sleep eat shit and do nothing else and be grateful for it.

Re: Poverty and "luxury items" - a discussion

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, because that's the same thing.

No one is saying that. Or if they are, they're dicks. What most people are saying is that maybe someone shouldn't buy expensive shoes people NOT on welfare can barely afford if they can get similar shoes at a cheaper price. That sort of thing.

Re: Poverty and "luxury items" - a discussion

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I'm not talking about poverty in the individual sense but poverty as a social condition. Poverty does not exist because of entitlement; entitlement is not the reason there are poor people or people on welfare. It's the result in large part of broad economic conditions, and in many cases of fundamental underlying injustices.

Of course entitlement plays a part I'm sure, and there are many cases where one of the reasons individual people are poor is because they are not good financial planners. But after all they are still human beings even if they're not thrifty; and the logical endpoint of your argument is that one should not enjoy anything while being poor, because it costs money and that's the state's money, or in a more indirect sense because it costs time and they could be putting that time to better use. And that's an argument that I absolutely reject. People are human beings with a certain dignity regardless of whether or not they are poor.

Of course, I don't think you'd make that argument, any more than I would say people should get every consumer gadget they want. But it's important to keep in mind that people on welfare are still people & that they don't deserve to be punished for being on welfare & not all people on welfare are the same as your relatives.

Just out of curiosity, do you have much familiarity with Catholic social teachings? I ask just because I think it's a fascinating perspective on this, and I believe you're Catholic, aren't you?

Re: Poverty and "luxury items" - a discussion

[iceyred]

I am Catholic. I don't mind paying taxes so the needy can eat. I do mind paying taxes so the 'needy' can pay the phone companies $86 a month to have the iphone they got as a gift.

There are plenty of things to enjoy if someone is poor. Libraries. Some museums. Parks. Friends.

Not wanting to subsidize someone's poor planning is not punishing them. It is allowing them to deal with the predictable consequences of their actions.

Re: Poverty and "luxury items" - a discussion

[iceyred]

II Thessalonians 3:10 states: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.

Like I stated above, I'm okay with paying taxes to feed somebody while they look for a job, get through a rough time, etc. What I'm not okay with is paying taxes to feed someone while they spend their money on things they don't need. One is needy and the other is greedy, and Luke 12:15 states: And he said to them, “Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”

Also, I live in a country where the Founding Fathers were wise enough to give us the separation of church and state. Not everybody who pays taxes believes in the Bible so it shouldn't be used as a justification for welfare from public funds.

Ben Franklin (who certainly did not grow up in a rich household) wrote: I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.

Re: Poverty and "luxury items" - a discussion

[iceyred]

I didn't grow up poor. I grew up with an abusive nutjob of a brother and a mom prone to mental breakdowns. A lot of the financial resources went to that.

I am related to several poor people. The problem is entitlement.

Re: Poverty and "luxury items" - a discussion

[(Anonymous)]

Lovely how you bring something irrelevant to the table, just to make people feel bad about questioning your situation.

Re: Poverty and "luxury items" - a discussion

[iceyred]

They should feel bad about making assumptions about me and my life. And while I did not grow up poor, a lot of financial resources went to caring for/cleaning up after various family members. That didn't leave a lot left over for extras.

Re: Poverty and "luxury items" - a discussion

[iceyred]

People will keep doing what they're doing and the results will be exactly the same as before. Which is poverty.

I didn't make any assumptions about anyone's life. And I've mentioned that I'm willing to pay taxes to feed the hungry. I'm not willing to subsidize food so people can buy stuff they don't need.

I put up quotes from my religion that backed up my stance. You did the same for your side.

The idea that people should only buy things they can afford really bothers you doesn't it?

Re: Poverty and "luxury items" - a discussion

[iceyred]

Yes. Yes, entitlement does lead to poverty. 'I want the thing and I'm going to buy it even though I can't afford it and then others will provide for my needs.' Leads to poverty. I have seen this in my own family, in friends, classmates, customers, constituents, on tv specials, in the news, etc. I see it every time I turn around.

I haven't been talking about charity. I've been talking about public money and welfare. How/if/when/do I support charities is my own business. I choose what charities get my money/time and I do that based on how they spend it.

I have no choice about paying taxes, but I do have a right to be annoyed that my tax dollars don't go to helping people survive, but instead towards things they don't need.

You're crying that I'm selfish because I don't want to support irresponsible behavior. You're bawling that I'm not Catholic because I have boundaries about what I will and will not support. What you really mean is that I'm a bad person because you're not getting your own way.

Matthew 6:25-34 is a great quote. You should take it to heart and stop demanding people give you their money.

Re: Poverty and "luxury items" - a discussion

[(Anonymous)]

It's sad how many people I know who have gotten themselves into financial trouble because of exactly that attitude. They just HAD to go to that con or get that collector's edition of that new videogame even when they knew damn well it would be stretching their budget at best, and then two weeks later they're fretting that they don't have enough money to pay their rent/phone bill/utilities/whatever.

What galls me the most is when they then have the nerve to ask other people for money. Fuck you, I'm not bailing your stupid ass out for something that was entirely of your own doing.