[ SECRET POST #2737 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2737 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 041 secrets from Secret Submission Post #391.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Sometimes it makes critical conversation impossible

[(Anonymous)]

Not that I disagree with the sentiment of your post, but I'd like to try to explain the frustration of Uhura fans.

There are more problematic characters in the reboot than Uhura, but Uhura is the character who gets the majority of discussion about how terrible she is. Kirk, for example, is much less than he was in the original series, but you see a fraction of the posts about that.

Many people explained that it isn't racism, it's sexism, denying the possibility that it could be both; however, enter Carol Marcus. Although her character does catch some flack, it is still a fraction of the amount that Uhura gets.

Now, people often try to suggest that it is just shipper stuff -- Uhura is disliked because she is with Spock, and many people believe that, but some see it as a racial issue.

I am not trying to suggest that everyone who dislikes the Uhura character is a misogynist bigot, but that their are racial and sexual issues at play that are so ingrained, people refuse to consider them.

Uhura is not as problematic as some others but she gets exponentially more negative discussion. People who live that experience, recognize it when they see it.

Does defensiveness = aggressiveness?

Re: Sometimes it makes critical conversation impossible

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry this is so late, but I wanted to respond to this. In my experience, whenever someone makes a post critical of the other characters, most people end up either agree or calmly disagree and explain why. With Kirk, for example, I've seen a lot of people lament how horribly he treats women in the reboot and how they dislike that the way he insults Spock -- making fun of his ears for instance. Also, basically no one will challenge you if you bring up that Kirk didn't deserve his captaincy and hadn't DONE anything. With McCoy, I've similarly seen people lament that he has a smaller role and has basically been reduced to Kirk's friend and a machine to spout off charming Southern phrases. And Carol's role I've seen criticized as well for being a damsel in distress and being introduced in importance through her father. Not to mention her underwear scene which got a ton of flak.

In each of these cases, most people will gladly consider your opinion and there's no accusations of racism or sexism made. It seems to me that the reason, in large part, that these don't get discussed as much is because almost everyone AGREES that these are flaws in the writing. So there's really nothing to discuss as everyone's in accord.

With Uhura, though, it's the complete opposite. And it's annoying because that same subset of Spuhura fans that will call you racist/sexist at the drop of a hat will also defend the BS that was done to other characters. For example, I've seen them defend Kirk peeping at Carol saying that it wasn't that bad. And I've also seen them suggest that reboot Kirk is better written than TOS Kirk because at least he has a reason to act the way he does given that his dad died. As though Kirk in TOS didn't witness a massacre when he was 13…

And, to be quite honest, I do think that shipping is a big reason. I've been in other fandoms and the way that Uhura's character is twisted in fanfic is basically exactly the same as the way Ron Weasley and Aang's characters were twisted in my other fandoms. It is not at all uncommon to read a fic where Ron is abusive towards Hermione to make way for Harmony or Dramione. Heck, the trope is even called "Ron the Death Eater." And yes it's mean and character bashing, but how the heck do you get misogyny or racism out of that? It's just that people are immature and characters that make up a canon pairing when there's a fanon pairing that's overwhelmingly more popular tend to get bashed.

But unless people are actually saying things that are racist or misogynistic, it feels like that fraction of Spuhura fans is trivializing real issues for a stupid ship war. Being defensive is understandable, but attacking people is not. That's what I mean by aggressiveness. It would be one thing if they defended the writing. But instead they try to shut conversation down by making implications about people and questioning their motives.