fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #332 ]

⌈ Secret Post #332 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

OH YEAH and have a poll! → http://technophile.livejournal.com/77617.html

Secrets Left to Post: 08 pages, 200 secrets from Secret Submission Post #048.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, [ 1 ] not!fandom, [ 1 ] too small to read, [ 1 2 ] repeats, [ 1 ] not againnnn, [ 1 2 3 ] secrets that might get me banned, sorry 'bout that (1 about Lolita, 1 about shota, 1 about Loveless).
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Tuesday, December 4th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

See, it's funny, because when I first watched GL I thought Kamina looked quite feminine, which I found strange since it had been billed to me as a SUPER MANLY SERIES!!!!1

Anyway, I find binaries like this incredibly infuriating (moreso when applied to real life than fiction, obvs). Then again, I find gender ambiguity incredibly sexy, so I admit that my opinion is biased.

Okay, now we're ironically getting into the whole thing that your original comment was asking to move on from. I hope you realize :P

But like you said, we're now having to differentiate between "typical manly/masculine" appearance and "typical manly/masculine" behavior. If we keep with Gurren Lagann... yeah, a lot of the "manliest" guys (Kittan, Kamina, Simon) are still fairly 'pretty,' more so than others. Whereas then you have the bigger guys like Dayakka or LordGenome who have the manly (I'm tired of putting quotes around it just imagine they're there >_>) appearance. But Dayakka's a huge adorable softy and Lord Genome is... well, okay, he's pretty stereotypically manly.

I'll be one of those who might label GL as a SUPER MANLY SERIES!!!!1, sure, but it's more through the whole attitude of the series. The whole "fuck logic, do the impossible" theme, determination and dogged perseverence, facing down a giant robot of death with a shotgun, etc etc. Those are what I think a lot of people would see as traditional "masculine" themes. Though, rather, come to think of it, they're really just warrior motifs and can certainly be embodied by female characters though that's sadly rare.

I think I lost my point somewhere along the line, but are we talking about manly BEHAVIOR or manly APPEARANCE here?

It isn't irony. I know full-well what I'm doing, and what I was doing was pointing out that masculinity and feminity do not read the same to every person, which is why it's pretty useless to group a bunch of traits/appearances together and label them "masculine" and then taking the opposing traits/appearances and dubbing them as "feminine." Gender is a social construct anyway, you know? So I try not to define myself or other people with words that I feel don't mean anything, anyway.

Then again, this entire conversation is founded on personal opinions, so it doesn't matter.

argh I get the sinking feeling I have embroiled myself in a half-serious discussion about gender roles et al with someone who actually studies this stuff. >_>

Well yeah, I think that you've got a good point. I also think that there are certain ineffable PHYSICAL traits that can be mostly classified (say, due to biology). As long as we're talking about appearance, that is. Of course there are always exceptions, but generally speaking if you take a big burly construction worker with a full beard I think 99.9% of people would be able to go "yeah, that's 'masculine.'"

I don't necessarily think that 'feminine' is inherently the opposite, though. Just thinking about it, my own personal mental conceptions... a 'feminine' guy and a 'feminine' woman are still pretty different.

But this is dealing with the far extremes. I'm sort of reminded about that one secret a while back that actually talked about this whole "I like manly men" thing, with a picture of... some guy... from Crisis Core. And everybody was all "wait what? That's your idea of manly?"

AND this is just dealing with appearance. Traits and behavior are an entirely different story.

Though I still do get the feeling that I'm a bit out of my league here. >_>

Nah, this isn't getting serious (at least not to me, sorry if you feel that I'm putting you on the spot?), I just like to hear myself talk. Or look at myself type. Whichever is more relevant here.

I do agree that there are physical traits that = masculine, and those that = feminine. I mean, square jaw, more muscle definition, broad shoulders, smaller hips, penis, etc etc are all things that men are far more likely to have than women. But there are still grey areas, you know? Areas get even greyer when it comes to personality, since the cultural definition of masculinity we have may be entirely different in other parts of the world.

I think that we actually... may agree with each other on some points? We're just approaching it from very different perspectives, which is understandable, since no one's going to have the same life experience as another or the same definitions of something so subjective.

Oh no, not on the spot. It's just it's oddly reminding me of discussions I keep getting into with one of my friends who's a W/GS major where I keep ending up in over my head :P

(And it's this or read stuff about castle architecture. Bleh.)

I actually think we agree with each other on most of the points, though I'm still sort of confused what exactly we're talking about XD;

Oh yeah, guys have penises too. That's another generally masculine trait >_>.

There are still HUGE gray areas. And hell... well, I was just musing on it, so I'll stream of consciousness babble :P So... the image of a 'feminine' male is sort of waify, angular, thin. And I suppose that's one particular type of a 'feminine' woman (at least the distorted view of fashion models, anyway). But my immediate mental picture of ideal female femininity is curves, hips and bust. So I think it's sort of amusing that a feminine man and a feminine woman are still fairly different XD;

And yeah, once we start getting away from appearance is where the entire THING is one big gray area.

Yeah, that's the fastest way to derail conversations with me. Start talking about sexy women with curves orz

mmmmm curves. |)

...perhaps this is a tactic I should try on the aforementioned W/GS major friend? >_>

I don't know, your average W/GS major is probably not nearly as shallow and easily distracted by ~~boobies~~shiny things as I am, I admit it.

Well I know for a fact that she is a pretty fervent lesbian so IT'S WORTH A SHOT BECAUSE SHE RUNS CIRCLES AROUND ME OTHERWISE D:

All I can do with my major is talk at her in Chinese ;_;

Porn: always a good distraction technique.

Edited 2007-12-04 04:20 (UTC)

What was that? I'm too busy staring at your icon.

Though I can see why GL is a SUPER MANLY SERIES!!!!1 from the first (and only) episode I've watched, I thought the same about Kamina, too. Manly in personality and build, yeah, but I couldn't stop looking at his bloody eyelashes.

Kamina's eyelashes: a source of envy for little girls everywhere.

Your icon just gave me an orgasm btw.

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