[ SECRET POST #2783 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2783 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 069 secrets from Secret Submission Post #398.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random pattern image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[ariakas]

Ward is an adult now, and many adult victims of abuse have walked away from their abusers and chosen different paths through life. You're talking like Ward has no agency here, when everything that happened was a direct result of his choices (to set his house on fire rather than run away or go to CPS, to follow Garrett out of juvie, to stay in Alaska for those years waiting for him to return instead of just hitching a ride with the next campers back to civilization, to continue to follow him after he revealed who and what he was and what he was capable of, not to betray him to Coulson and the others, etc.).

Whereas Bucky literally had no choices, and no memories, and when finally given a choice and some memory, he chooses to save Cap and flee Hydra.

These are not even remotely comparable situations. Ward was influenced. Bucky was forced.

[klutzygirl]

That's because Ward didn't have any agency. John Garrett stripped it from him and broke him over and over again. Ward was led to believe that being dumped in the woods was part of his training for SHIELD. John convinced Ward that he owed him everything when that was the furthest thing from the truth.

And we don't know what his situation was like - maybe CPS didn't help and he finally had enough and that's why he snapped.

While Ward may have agreed to leave juvie, he was still an underage child and that is kidnapping. And then Garrett proceeded to emotionally and physically abuse him. Ward was forced too because his abuser convinced him there was no way out and he had nobody else. And where else was Ward supposed to go, since he had fled from juvie?

Eight months on the bus isn't going to break fifteen years of conditioning and abuse (with another fifteen years of abuse prior to that).

Bucky also didn't remember who he was until he saw Steve, who definitely helped break the conditioning. Ward was forced too.

However, the abuse definitely doesn't excuse Ward's actions and he does need to pay for them in jail.

[ariakas]

That's because Ward didn't have any agency. John Garrett stripped it from him and broke him over and over again.

This isn't even remotely true. We see Ward make independent choices over and over again, including ones Garrett doesn't absolutely approve of. Ward is not under Garrett's direct control - he has ample opportunity to betray him to both SHIELD and the rest of the crew. Killing someone's dog doesn't "break" them, and neither does dumping them in the woods where they can hike back to civilization. Garrett revealed that he was a liar and a murderer while Ward had every opportunity to leave, and he still followed him. Being influenced by an abuser is not being "forced", and many victims of abuse can and do leave and turn on their abusers.

Bucky is literally under direct control. He is actually being forced. He can't leave, and he can't even remember who he was. As soon as he's actually given options, he chooses his original loyalties. Ward is repeatedly given choices throughout the show and throughout his life, and he chooses Garrett and Hydra every time, right to the end. These situations are not even remotely comparable.

[(Anonymous)]

+1000

Actually, +1000 to every single one of your comments about Ward and/or Bucky. Thanks for laying out your analysis of the situation so clearly and insightfully.

[(Anonymous)]

This, every word.

Thanks for laying it out. Alas, logic and reason do not apply to some fans' treatises. Their stubborn refusal to see the evil in a character they woobify is pathetic.

(Not to say I like Cap-style lawful-good protags; I still have a hankering for Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, for example, and would sleep with Damon of Vampire Diaries fame in a heartbeat. But they are both murderers and rapists; they just also happen to be sharp and snarky and oh, yeah, easy on the eyes.)