[ SECRET POST #2805 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2805 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 054 secrets from Secret Submission Post #401.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[iceyred]

Well, some people are murderous bags of anti-social crap. Others are innocent children.

In retrospect, I should have just said, 'innocent children have a right to life.'

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[(Anonymous)]

If it's something that's earned on the basis of behavior, it's not a right.

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[(Anonymous)]

Everyone has the right to liberty, until they murder someone. Then they go to prison. Are we infringing on the murderer's rights?

No comment on the right to life, but your argument here doesn't fly.

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[(Anonymous)]

Well, yes, that's what I was saying. My point was that everyone has the right to liberty, generally, but if they go murder someone that can be taken away and it is *not* infringing on any rights.

According to anon's argument, that's not something we can do, because that makes liberty something "earned."

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[iceyred]

You have the right. You also have the responsibility not to be anti-social piece of shit. If you don't accept the responsibility then you forfeit the right.

Amusingly enough, this is also how I feel about gun control...

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[iceyred]

Sadly, my attempts to set myself up as Supreme Dictator of Everything have fallen by the wayside, so yeah, the American justice system gets to make that decision.

I've given a few sources with data upthread, and I've explained myself a bit when people asked. My nation is not a theocracy (nor do I want it to be) so while religion is part of my reasoning for being anti-abortion, public policy isn't based on my religion.

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[ill_omened]

Jumping off on this and your other post above.

This seems like such a bizzare track to go down for some kind of 'check mate pro-lifers' point.

It's almost simply philosophically trivial that people consider that some people have an inherent right to life, whilst others can have that right retracted for a number of reasons. The most obvious would be self defence where anyone but the most insane pacifist would agree that you have the right to deprive them of their life. And the counterpoint there surely wouldn't be 'well you say you're pro-life, but also say if someone was shooting at you, you would defend yourself - make you think'?

Yes people can both be for the death penalty, and pro-life.

They'd be wrong for lots of other reasons, but not due to some deep incompatibility between the two positions.

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[(Anonymous)]

"why do some people have less of a right to life than others depending on the situation or issue?"

"there is a difference between self-defense, a situation where there's no time to think and no precedent to review, and "the state of Florida has decided that your right to life can be retracted after a trial by your peers, barring appeals, and will carry out the execution.""

Didn't you just answer your own question?

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[(Anonymous)]

If you try to take someone else's life, that person gains the lawful right to take your life if necessary, so your right to life is diminished. Surely you can see why "some people have less of a right to life than others depending on the situation or issue"?

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[(Anonymous)]

Then:

If you try to take someone else's life, most people would agree that person gains the moral right to take your life if necessary, so your right to life is diminished. Surely you can see why "some people have less of a right to life than others depending on the situation or issue"?

Is that better?

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[(Anonymous)]

SA

Double post, borked HTML.

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[(Anonymous)]

Not Stella but I disagree with this and I think it's a misleading and incorrect formulation.

Your right to life is not diminished in any way. Rather, the other person's right to self-defense, ultimately their right to life, comes into conflict with yours and wins out over it.

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[(Anonymous)]

But why do they win? Is their right to life suddenly more than yours? So theirs is greater? Why does the value change at all?

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[ill_omened]

Right, there's exactly a difference, but by agreeing that self defence is a reason to take a life, and doesn't invalidate a right to life in different situations we've already agreed that life can be taken in some situations and not others - and those don't have direct connections to each other.

You're right that the checkmate line wasn't entirely fair, and I did consider not including it, but it seems to entirely charaterise the bumper sticker politics that is the suggestion that it's somehow logically impossible to be both pro life, and pro death penalty. Because it's quite simply not.

And philosophically trivial here is refering to the fact that the distinctions existance is widely considered true and easily demonstrated - not anything relating to its value.

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[ill_omened]

Easiest that comes to mind would be either rights are not inherent, merely granted by our participation in the social contract, and murder is the ultimate violation of that removing any protections owed to you or basic utilitarian argument that it discourages further murders (I mean it doesn't, but people love to argue the toss on that).

(frozen comment) Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

[(Anonymous)]

Couldn't you argue that a community also has a right to protect itself/its members, parallel with an individual being able to protect himself?