[ SECRET POST #2807 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2807 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 033 secrets from Secret Submission Post #401.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random photo of a pizza place ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

05. http://i.imgur.com/ndKf6YY.png

[(Anonymous)]

Eh.

Like, I agree that the double standard you're talking about exists (full disclosure, I am a male who is pretty much exclusively het), but there's a pretty easy solution to all that, viz. ignoring it.

[(Anonymous)]

I, too, get annoyed with the inconsistency sometimes.

[sarillia]

I'll be a lot more sympathetic to this conversation if it acknowledges that there are a lot of queer women who like slash and can't be said to be fetishizing homosexuality the way some straight people do. They always get ignored in these discussions and it's frustrating to me.

[(Anonymous)]

Was coming here to say this, but you phrased it better than I could. +1.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know, I think you could still argue that queer women can fetishize gay men. In a different way than straight people, sure, but.

[sarillia]

This occurred to me too. I'm not sure what I think of it and I'd be interested to hear different opinions.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, but a huge reason we like slash is because we can fucking relate to it. A gay story is a gay story. I don't think that counts as fetishization.

[(Anonymous)]

And sometimes straight women who don't fit into societal norms or want to critique or question them can also identify with or explore themes related to the gay experience through stories. Many slash stories are non explicit; it's more complicated than 'porn'

The idea that straight slashers are just objectifying male bodies is simplistic and really rather insulting.

/sits and waits for "cishet women have no problems, shut up and die in a fire"

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think you can speak for anyone's reasons for liking slash, gay or otherwise. I'm a lesbian and sure, I like the appeal of gay relationships for obvious reasons. But I'll be frank - it's also very, very physical, and very much about two guys going at it in a way that doesn't really relate to my experience as a lesbian.

Am I ashamed? No, but then, I don't think it's wrong to think something is hot - the important point is knowing the time and place to explore it, and not bringing that into real life.

[(Anonymous)]

I do agree this is frustrating, although I do think it's mostly fandom as a whole that has a double standard and not individual fans (i.e. I think most fans are either pro-sexualization for men and women, or they're anti-sexualization for men and women -- but are more vocal about the gender that gets sexualized too little/much for their tastes). When you add up all the individual voices, you get a fanbase that seems to have very inconsistent views.

That said, I'm sure there are individuals with double standards. Some of that might be just a consequence of how most creators of media are male, and there's a bit of a difference between a male creator throwing in gratuitous lesbian fanservice in a way that alienates female fans vs. a male creator making an interesting male/male dynamic and female fans enjoying it on whatever level they like. But some of it is just completely different standards of judging other people vs. judging oneself (i.e. "when YOU do it, it's creepy/problematic; when I do it, it's empowering"), and that's frustrating.

[kallanda_lee]

I understand why people dislike fetishization, but then I also see how it completely makes sense that a significant subset of straight guys will love lesbian porn, and a significant subset of straight girls will like gay porn. It's not rocket science: two of what you like is better than one.

People argue it's less bad if women do it, because their sexualities tend to be more repressed by society, but it's basically the same thing. And it's not bad per se, unless people get creepy about it.

[(Anonymous)]

Mm, I don't know how I feel about this. As a queer person myself, I pretty much don't care about how people ship/porn so long as you treat real life people with dignity and respect. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[silverr]

This, absolutely. Well said.

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, some of us aren't out to "sexualize" anyone and it's not just about personal empowerment. Quite frankly, for myself personally and other women I have known in fandom, this is the only means of experimenting with a part of our sexuality that is either not recognized as important in our daily lives or is rejected when we bring it up. It is not only considered normal, but highly encouraged for men to experiment with the thought and follow through of having sex with two women. For women, it's considered disgusting and slutty to want to have sex with two men. But it's a-okay for us to be props to make some guy's fantasy come true.

So, before you and the rest of the rest of the people like you assume, maybe ask? We're not all "straight, white women" out for the tru boi luv, like so many assume fandom is limited to.

[(Anonymous)]

THANK YOU.

[ypsilon42]

It seems a little unfair maybe, but considering our culture as a whole mostly shames women for liking porn... I really cannot be bothered to get angry about this.

Also I think there is something to be said about the differences of how sexualisation works in slash fanfiction compared to mainstream porn.

[(Anonymous)]

Also I think there is something to be said about the differences of how sexualisation works in slash fanfiction compared to mainstream porn.

I think that's basically true. However, I think that's fundamentally a critique of mainstream porn, not a critique of male sexuality as such.

[ypsilon42]

You are right and I didn't mean to imply that male sexuality is equivalent to mainstream porn in general. But I think the fact that many people do associate male sexuality with mainstream porn, is the reason for the hostility and the double standart the OP is complaining about.

[(Anonymous)]

Your point is valid and very well put, OP. IDK. I'm a female het, I don't slash, but I def have a female gaze going on. Sorry?

[(Anonymous)]

Oh Naruto fandom. I love how the shipping war makes people complete hypocrites. NS shippers recently compared that woman who was assaulted by her fiance to people who ship SS-and I'm here banging my head against the desk trying to explain that just because you like something in fiction it doesn't mean you like it in real life. And god, for a fandom so obsessed with 'feminism and anti-women abuse!" they sure do victim blame. A lot.

[(Anonymous)]

I've been taught in school that a woman isn't supposed to have sexual desires and any woman who enjoys any kind of porn is disgusting, unnatural and disrespectful to the bodies of others. It really doesn't make much of a difference to me that you think the same of my particular porn preferences now, does it?

[(Anonymous)]

You're reading OP as saying that slash is bad, and I don't think that's the only way to read this secret.

I agree with you that your porn preferences aren't bad and you should own that shit.

[(Anonymous)]

Most slash fangirls learn to keep quiet about it, and not to apply it to actual people. (They save it for actors, which is also shitty.) Straight dudes who fetishize female-female relationships, however, seem more likely to carry it over into real life, and a lot of them never develop a filter for some reason. Might be that the line between fiction and reality is clearer in fandoms than it is in porn, especially for animated things.

This is based on my experiences as a lesbian, and stories I've heard from other queer girls. I'm not saying no man has ever experienced that kind of harassment.