[ SECRET POST #2807 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2807 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 033 secrets from Secret Submission Post #401.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - random photo of a pizza place ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Um, I don't think you understood what I said at all, but maybe I didn't explain it well enough? I'm not saying that I dislike feminine things or wearing dresses and that's why I don't think of myself as female. I'm saying that even though I do like those things, it has nothing to do with whether or not I identify as female. I could fit every single stereotype there is for women, but it won't change the fact that I don't think of myself as one.

People who don't think of themselves as male or female can also be as feminine or masculine as they want. Saying that everyone who doesn't conform to gender norms shouldn't think of themselves as anything but 'male' or 'female' just because the boxes, as you put them, can be as big as they want doesn't matter. It's the boxes themselves and the idea that there can only be two that's the real issue for people who are genderqueer.

[(Anonymous)]

as a cis woman who has always been towards the more masculine end of the spectrum (and in fact had people outright question if i was "really a woman" because of it, thank you. the idea of "genderqueer" existing as something that's outside of the existing spectrum of gender presentation is extremely harmful to both trans and cis people because it leads to attitudes exactly like the ones held by the people who questioned my femaleness - the idea that there is a single acceptable way to "do gender" and that if you don't meet it, then you aren't normal or aren't really the gender you say you are.

not only that, but the concept of gender being a "feeling" or something changeable makes light of the very real struggles that trans people face in regards to their sex and gender. ("can't you just be a tomboy?" or the exact same shit i got about being too masculine to be a "real woman")

i think it's very telling that i have literally never, ever seen a man identify as "genderqueer." it's always women, usually with a side of "i'm not like those other girls" that one of the anons up above mentioned. i can't help but think that a lot of it stems from (conscious or subconscious) self-loathing where being female or feminine in any way is seen as a bad thing, so they try to disassociate from everything that is considered female. i think this is where a lot of the current trend of trans fetishism comes from too.

it's ridiculous and it really needs to stop.

[(Anonymous)]

I've seen guys identify as genderqueer, but it's usually been from areas with a lot of men are awful radfem rhetoric. :/

In theory, bigender makes sense to me, but it's too illy defined for me to make any sense of it. Like you said pretty much everyone isn't 100% masculine or feminine. Agender, however, has never made any sense to me.

[(Anonymous)]

There are plenty of men identifying as genderqueer. I also know post-op trans people who in the end decided they really identify as genderqueer, not as the gender they transitioned to.

You're right that there is no "right" way of "doing gender". But there's also no "right" way of doing race, yet you wouldn't insist that a person can't be the race they identify as because they don't "look" like a stereotypical perosn of that race. Because racial divide, just like gender divide, is mostly cultural, not biological.

And if you believe that gender -= biology, then binary transgenderism is bullcrap. No matter how much a person surgically modifies their body, it will NOT change their sex. They are still male or female, just the way they were born, just with an extremely masculine or feminine presentation, including their body presentation. A "transman" is a in reality a woman, who prefers male body physique and social role, a "transwoman" is a man who prefers the opposite. Just liek a cis woman who loses her breasts and uterus to cancer is still biologically a woman.

[(Anonymous)]

You're right, I did mention those things, but I very plainly said that I don't have very many stereotypically masculine interests and lean more towards liking feminine things, so your entire argument has nothing to do with me. I also explained having feelings of physical dysphoria, but I guess that's just not important?

In any case, the idea that 'male' and 'female' are the only genders is not a universal belief anyway. In the past there have been several cultures that acknowledged people who did not identify with either category too, and even today across the world there are people who identify as neither and are actively campaigning to be acknowledged. It's not a new thing that only teenagers on the internet are making up for themselves.

Your comparison to the Kinsey scale is more accurate than you'd think. After all, the Kinsey scale too is simplistic, as it still assumes that there is an extreme of 'heterosexuality' and 'homosexuality' and everything else is a spectrum of bisexuality between the two, ignoring people who are asexual or pansexual.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

and yes, I've seen many people appropriate Indian and Native American cultural concepts of gender and apply them to their Western selves.

I take it, you haven't heard of the place called Albania. It's a country in Europe and it had the concept of a third gender since centuries.

re:kinsey, I didn't entirely udnerstand what the anon above is tryign to argue here, but there are many people int his world who identify as bisexual, not as "straight with an atypical preference". Just like people can identify as nonbinary, instead of simply "man" and "woman".