[ SECRET POST #2815 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2815 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.
[John Green]


__________________________________________________



04.
(Hemlock Grove)


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07. [posted twice]


__________________________________________________



08.
[Russell Edwards' Naming Jack the Ripper]


__________________________________________________



09.
[Coronation Street]
















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 020 secrets from Secret Submission Post #402.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Annnnd that goes back to the stick figure bit. I can draw some shit in five minutes, claim it took me twelve hours, and then berate the person who paid me for not making sure I did what I was asked to do. The burden of producing should be placed on the producer, not on the consumer.

[(Anonymous)]

But if there's no contract or verbal agreement, the burden actually does go to the consumer.

You get paid for your work whether it's good or bad, if it's bad then you get fired or don't get hired again. Most artists want to get hired again but we're not perfect, we don't always produce results a client loves. That's where being clear about if you are looking for revisions or not is very important. If an artist tells you it will be an additional fee, you have the option to not hire that artist or not hire them again.

This was the OP's mistake.

[(Anonymous)]

The problem is that with other products and services, you're able to at least get a partial refund if you aren't satisfied. That's why this is really rubbing the wrong way, because when it comes to other exchanges, it's not generally considered the consumer's fault if the experience or product that's delivered is subpar. And requiring a contract to deliver a certain level of quality is...kind of insulting.

[(Anonymous)]

But you don't automatically get a refund at many businesses, there are terms of service and warranties and contracts on most things and many stores will not provide a refund unless you can prove the fault was on their end. This would be very difficult to prove with art.

Look at it this way, you get paid for your day of work no matter what kind of work you do. Now if you do a shit job you may get fired and not have more money tomorrow, but your boss can't go back and time and take what money you have made away from you. Everyone gets paid for their time, we have to protect workers that way or it's too easy for them to get taken advantage of.

[diet_poison]

In many cases it would be difficult to prove, but I kinda think a piece that is clearly below the level of the rest of the artist's work is, in fact, subpar and not the fault of the consumer, because the consumer paid for the kind of work they are used to the artist producing.

If five people pay an artist $50 to produce a piece, and the artist puts in $50 worth of effort on four of them and produces nice pieces, and on the last one gets lazy and puts in $20 worth of effort, and the difference is clear for anyone to see, then the fifth consumer got ripped off and deserves a partial refund or a revision.

[(Anonymous)]

That still falls down to contracts, verbal agreements and artist policies though. If the consumer did not ask any questions or discuss any of this prior to the artist producing the work, the fault lies with the consumer.

Some artists may do revisions for free, some may charge a fee. These are questions the customer needs to ask ahead of time if the artist isn't upfront about their policies.

It's just too easy to argue quality so you have to make agreements before any work is even done.

[diet_poison]

I like how in an equal exchange of resources, only one side seems to bear the burden for contracts and upfront policies.

You're basically saying it's ok for an artist to be dishonest and/or unethical because the consumer didn't take enough steps to stop them from doing that.

How about being a decent human being and doing the right thing and not ripping people off??

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not saying it's okay to be dishonest, ideally both parties would be upfront from the beginning. But what OP went through sounds like a misunderstanding or miscommunication, and I don't believe the artist should have to lose money just because OP believes they got an inferior product (which they can't really prove anyway.)

There is no way for us to know that the artist ripped the OP off. Being dissatisfied with a piece does not mean the artist didn't give it their best effort, this goes back to art being subjective again.

[(Anonymous)]

And whether or not the artist gave the piece their best effort is subjective too.

[(Anonymous)]

Effort doesn't matter; the actual result does. It's not that hard to look at their previous work and see if it's similar to their other output.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I'm not Artiste!anon; I'm agreeing with you. I think their argument here is completely self-serving.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, as an artist I have to call bullshit on your ideas. Every single customer I get is an advertisement for me. If they like my work they may tell some of their friends how awesome I am and earn me more business.

On the contrary, if they are dissatisfied with the work I did and it's noticeably not up to my usual standard, and then I for some odd reason refuse them a refund or redo? They're going to tell as many people as they possibly can how shitty my business practices are.

I agree with others that several months down the line is an inappropriate time to bring it up, by that point the client should have spoken up.

But understand, what I do is run a business, and I want my clients to be as happy as they can. And one unhappy one can ruin months of work.

And beyond a business standpoint why the hell would I want to give a client sub-par work? Why would I want them to be unhappy with my product? How is that supposed to be an acceptable thing? I have integrity thank you.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't disagree with anything you're saying in general. But artists have to protect themselves as much as they have to try to put their best foot forward, part of protecting yourself is making sure you don't go into debt putting more hours into a piece then what was paid for it.

And if you do revisions for free, that is absolutely your right and your policy, but I don't think it should be automatically assumed that every artist has to or that it's expected if it was never mentioned at the start of the commission. Have you never had a "bad client" before? You need to protect yourself from bad clients just as much as commissioners need to protect themselves from "bad artists."

I know it may not sound like it, but I'm actually one of those people who will do some revisions for free and who gives people more then they pay for. I'm actually TOO NICE though because from a business perspective, I shouldn't be putting in so much work for so little money.

And a lot of this is assuming the work is sub par, or not worth the amount paid, we honestly have no idea if this is the case. We have no idea if the revisions would be free or if they would cost or if the artist would do them at all. All I'm trying to say is that it is up to the artist, and if the commissioner wanted something specific, they needed to say so long ago.

[diet_poison]

It's...actually pretty easy to prove that a product you have is substantially and qualitatively different from what's on display.

Of course *we* don't know, the entire thread is technically based on speculation.

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, no -- you don't always get paid for your day of work. People who work on commission only get paid when they produce, regardless how much time they put in to it. If they don't make any sales on a particular day, then they don't get paid.