[ SECRET POST #2824 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2824 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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02.
[John Oliver]


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04.


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05. [ns]


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06.


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09.


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10. [SPOILERS for Ghost Trick]



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11. [SPOILERS for Kick Ass 2]



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12. [SPOILERS for Haven]



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13. [SPOILERS for Spec Ops: The Line]



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14. [WARNING for rape]



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15. [WARNING for rape]



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16. [WARNING for rape]



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17. [WARNING for rape]



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18. [WARNING for self-harm]

[Kill la Kill]










Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #403.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Forgive me because its been a long time since I've seen the entirety of that season but didn't Willow memory tweak Tara on more then one occasion? One time in which it was after a fight so they wouldn't have to continue to fight? That would be taking away Tara's autonomy so I could see where the thought process of considering it an issue of rape since it's an imbalance of power.

It's been ages though so I could be remembering fic plots instead of actual canon; if so ignore all this.

[silverr]

true ... she did the Lethe's Bramble one just to erase the memory of their one fight about her using magic too much, and then in the "Tabala Rasa" ep she tried a stronger memory spell that affected everyone.

I mean, I do get that there's consent issues and manipulation here, and certainly violation of trust, but ... it just doesn't feel on the same level as Warren's mind control of Katrina, or Spike's "I know you love me."

[arcadiaego]

I certainly wouldn't deny what Warren or Spike did was worse, but the OP is saying that anyone who considers it rape is suffering from internalised misogyny and sullying a wonderful character when actually Willow was just plain awful to Tara in Season 6, regardless of her intentions.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, those were legitimate rapes. Willow just conned Tara into having sex by deception and tampering with her mind to make sure she didn't remember not consenting. Totally different.

[silverr]

Fine you, win. You have forced me to acknowledge your obvious superiority.

Happy now?

[(Anonymous)]

Yes.

[(Anonymous)]

legitimate rapes? Fuck you.

[(Anonymous)]

Pretty sure that anon was being sarcastic.

[(Anonymous)]

Another clueless noob trips and falls into the Sar-Chasm.

[(Anonymous)]

It is literally the same level of warren.
Fucking with a person's mind so they will do what you want.
Willow left Tara with more freedom between controlling her.

[(Anonymous)]

IAWTC in its totality. Sure, I can see why the comparison would make Willow fans uncomfortable, but then the writing for Season 6 left no characters unscathed.

[(Anonymous)]

See, I disagree on Spike's. Because that scene always felt to me like two people who had been in an extremely kinky relationship that pushed the boundaries and him continuing to push those boundaries until he realized that she really wasn't consenting. He freaks out as soon as he realizes it. So while I can see why most people see that scene as a clear rape attempt, I've never interpreted it that way. Of course, Buffy wasn't consenting, so it makes sense that she didn't want to be with him again even in season 7. But I think that their complicated relationship was a definite factor in what happened.

Willow and Tara, on the other hand, I feel like it is sort of the equivalent of marital rape. Just because you are in a relationship doesn't mean that the need for consent goes away. Spike didn't understand completely that Buffy wasn't consenting. Willow completely took away Tara's ability to freely consent. That is more clearly rape to me.

[silverr]

Very good point,and well put.

she didn't want to be with him again even in season 7.

Is this confirmed? I know they didn't the night he gave her the "You're a hell of a woman" speech, but I did get the impression that they might have slept together -- at the last in a healthy, respectful, non-punishy and non-self-loathy sort of way *g* -- the night before the final battle. (I admit I could be perceiving/interpreting this through shippy goggles.)

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know? It is clear from interviews that Whedon didn't want to show them having sex, but maybe that doesn't mean they actually didn't?

[silverr]

*nods* I'm at least grateful that it was left ambiguous enough to be open to interpretation, then.

[(Anonymous)]

The Spuffy relationship in season six was one big explanation of why you need safewords. I have known people, well lets call them idiots, in BDSM relationships who never set a safeword, either "because I'll know" (hence, "idiots") or just that they (like Spuffy) were too self destructive to care, and it always ended up with one of them seriously hurting the other. All parties involved bear responsibility for that. I don't know any that managed to get back together, but I guess it is not beyond the bounds of possibility. People, play rough if you want -no shame in that-, but for fuck's sake set a fucking safeword (or safe-gesture if you are into muzzling and gags) so you don't end up in that situation.

And yeah, one of the relationships (this was a poly one too, three idiots for the price of two) that liked to enjoy surprise rape-play and even with the fuckup potential and being told repeatedly by the local BDSM group, they still never set a safeword. They were one of the ones that went with "because I'll know", and you'll never guess what happened... Local prosecutor refused to file charges on grounds that there was no realistic prospect of a conviction, and the the defendant lacked clear intent. She was probably right at that.

[arcadiaego]

Willow wiped Tara's memory in All the Way after a row about Willow using magic, so the love song Tara sings in Once More with Feeling and the sex scene are all after she's been enchanted. Then Willow tries to erase the entire row in the next episode and accidentally wipes everyone's memories temporarily. This is after Tara has specifically said that she feels violated and there will be 'nothing left of her'.

I don't know whether any of these entirely impossible things qualify as rape, but it's hardly delusional to argue they do.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't forget the fact the previous season Tara had her brain turned to mush after Glory probed it to get information on the scoobies. So she has plenty of personal reason to not want her own girlfriend casting spells on her that affect her mind and her memory, beyond the normal moral, ethical, violation of person stuff, and be worried that there'd be 'nothing left of her'.

[arcadiaego]

I was actually going to say that at the end of my comment but I thought I was starting to sound a bit like the one woman Tara appreciation society in this thread so I deleted it. :-P But yeah, she got a very rough deal.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it adds much needed context to the situation though. If it had been Xander Willow did this to, it would definitely be bad, creepy etc, but it has a whole nother layer to it with Tara due to season 5, how Tara was pretty much a non-person due to her mind being pretty much wiped and made mush, then Willow having to basically look after her as one would a young child or elderly person with dementia.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

At least Willow was kind and loving to Tara after Glory's mind-wipe. In season 6, though, something disturbing happened to the dynamic (my guess is she liked being semi-in charge of the Scooby Gang after Buffy's death), and suddenly Willow started feeling ENTITLED to Tara's affections. That's what made her use of Lethe's bramble such a betrayal; she knew how hurt Tara had been by her manipulation at the hands of Glory AND her own family, and yet - Willow did it anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

na

This. I'm not saying that Willow is a horrible or irredeemable person, but I seriously question anything who can defend what she did to Tara. It's just beyond fucked up on so many levels.