[ SECRET POST #2864 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2864 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 023 secrets from Secret Submission Post #409.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[sarillia]

I'm so sick of queer relationships that are only hinted at. I understand the need to do it that way in the past but can we stop it now?

I'm gonna go do some more grumbling about how Wicked had bestiality but the love between Elphaba and Glinda that McGuire claims is canon was too much to spell out on the page.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure in TYOOL 2014 that is just not a viable excuse and anyone who claims it is should be mocked mercilessly.

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't read nor I have I seen Wicked (hopefully will), but I've sang along with ALL the songs, and it just bothers me when people have to assume a great friendship is anything more than that. Such relationships remind me of my best friend and I have. We love each other very much, like we're sisters, or one person that is made of two....and that's a queer relationship? No. It's not. Not in our case at least, and perhaps in some media as well.
Just came here to defend the possibility of amazing friendships.

I understand why queer baiting is liked/disliked, and personally I like just calling it out -- X likes So and So and they're together or they're not, or some flirting, but making it clear. I'll agree with you there. Just 2 cents in for the friendships out there!

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I get what you're saying here, and I think there needs to be more portrayals of awesome loving but platonic female friendships everywhere. But Wicked is kind of the worst fandom to nake tgis point about, I'm sorry.

[sarillia]

I just hate how people who want to see more great female friendships and people who want to see more f/f romantic relationships end up fighting. Can't we ask for both? How about a lesbian relationship where they have a close female friend who has no sexual or romantic interest in them? What do you know, gay people can have close same-sex friendships too! It's not either/or!

I'm not someone who looks at a friendship that could be interpreted as romantic and insists that they're totally in love though. I'm actually really terrible at seeing queer subtext and I tend to take these kinds of relationships at face value. Wicked only bugs me because the author himself says that they were in love but he didn't bother to make it explicit in the book.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

I've never quite understood this. It's as though you're saying that expanding a friendship out to be romantic somehow negates the friendship, when a great deal of romantic relationships IRL come from friendships first. People seeing romantic potential in a friendship doesn't somehow mean the friendship goes away -- the friendship is only built upon, it's still a huge part of the framework. No shipper's saying "but they're not friends anymore!" if they ship a canon friendship.

At worst it sounds like you (general you, because I've seen people making this argument before) find something off-putting about people mistaking your closeness for romance, when, really, what difference does it make and it's something that's easily corrected anyway if necessary?

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I have nothing against people who have friendships at first and later develop romantic relationships (in many cases this romantic relationship deepens the friendship). Nor is it that people will mistake my friendship for something more (be it with a guy or a girl--I don't really care) it's just that...it irks me that something can't just be platonic.

I have nothing against it growing to be something more, I just like good old platonic relationships! To be quite honest with you, there are some fictional relationships I can definitely understand both sides of the argument for (I may even get on the other side of the fence). I just prefer platonic relationships, sometimes I want to read about stories that remind me of my friendship.

Of course, people will ship what they want, write about what they want, etc. Laissez faire. It's fandom, enjoy yourself.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I understand wanting stories that remind you of your friendship.

But you get to see friendships like yours everywhere, since actual depicted friendships are far more common, and since in the actual canon you're getting an actual friendship (maybe not in this example with Wicked but in 99.9999% of other shows where it's WYSIWYG), then you have to remember that most people seeing that friendship will see platonic friendship as a default. The very possibility of romance is immediately counted out, so you might be irked but other people are pretty much erased.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

You've got me there, anon.

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't read nor I have I seen Wicked (hopefully will), but I've sang along with ALL the songs, and it just bothers me when people have to assume a great friendship is anything more than that.

The author himself said that they are supposed to be in love with one another. People aren't assuming anything in this case. They're going by the words of the author.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

Also, keep in mind that there are a lot of canon f/f friendships out there, while there are very, very few canon f/f romances. Can you not understand why lesbians and bisexual women would like to see more f/f romance?

[(Anonymous)]

This.

There's something very hurtful about the constant chorus of "No, they're just friends!" The unfortunate subtext of that is "They couldn't possibly be gay, so get that icky interpretation away from them!"

Yeah, maybe they are just friends. But don't knock down the people for whom it's important to consider the possibility they're not. Please.

[(Anonymous)]

OP of the friendship post

I've read everybody's post here, and I'm not trying to knock anyone down. As the above poster pointed out, the author himself said they were in love, so I guess that's it! They're in love!

I have nothing against people wanting there to be a particular relationship (in this case f/f). As a matter of fact it would be nice to see one in which the the two female characters do have that kind of relationship and it's not fetishized or anything of that nature.

The point I'm trying to make is that it always seems to me (and I'm not active in fandom, this is just my perspective from what I glean here and there)is that people can't believe that two people (be it m/m, m/f, f/f) can't just be friends, there always has to be sexual or romantic undertones. (The same way you mention the chorus "but they can't be more than friends!?!!", of course this [friendship business] is probably less hurtful, as it just bothers me personally, not that it causes any pain. I can live with or without it. I understand it's a different story and pain for gay relationships). It sucks both ways. But this is fandom, so you can do what you want. And hopefully, there will be more forms and CLEARER forms of representation for everyone. Until then, fanfiction will have to do.

[(Anonymous)]

ALL the songs? Because if you haven't spotted the subtext in "What Is This Feeling?", you need to listen again.

[greenvelvetcake]

Wait, that was canon in the books? I got more of a reading from it in the musicals, but not at all from the books.

[sarillia]

According to some people I've talked to who spoke to him at book signings, he says it's canon.

[ozaline]

My understanding is he didn't intend it from the first book, but after people pointed it out to him, he decided to roll with it... Out of Oz isn't that subtle about it... but of course Elphaba is dead by that point.

[(Anonymous)]

Considering the book was actually terrible, I wouldn't take anything the author said as fact. He was probably just trying to drum up sales.

[ozaline]

To be fair, I think Maguire only canonized it after the fact... it was something he intended while writing the first book.

And you had Liir being bisexual, and Rain knowing Ozma was female all along (having implications for the trans crowd).