fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2868 ]

[ SECRET POST #2868 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2868 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 075 secrets from Secret Submission Post #410.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Really? Because that 'obvious why' from people sounds like speculation from here, and their understanding of what and how fic commissioning works is rather off.

Commission-ransom implies that you have a right to the fic, btw. You don't.

Then go right ahead and enlighten us, please.

We don't know what thought process the author OP's talking about went through to reach their decision. What we do know is that they've decided randomly mid-fic to start charging money or they won't release any more chapters. We also know that they refuse to alter too much of their planned plotline for their commissioners. Both those things suggest that if they hadn't gotten the idea to commission, the fic would have continued regardless. "Pay me or I won't update" IS holding fic to ransom, same as "Review me or I won't update!" is. No one's forcing either the reader to pay (in either currency) nor the writer to write, but the onus is on the writer if they're trying to sell a product. Especially one that people began their 'contract' with for free.

How about people actually go educate themselves. You've got the internet, and I'm noting people are talking out of ignorance. It's not my job to enlighten them when they have access to authors if they so wish to find out how fic commissioning actually works.

The flaw in your reasoning is that you are owed the fic. You are not. If the "price" is not paid, you won't get the fic. It was never yours to begin with, so complaining that the author is holding it out of reach isn't even the correct way to think about it.

I'm going to use a metaphor someone on Tumblr used. A coworker is baking cookies. They share the cookies for free at work. You like the ingredients, you have equal access to the ingredients, but you really like this person's cooking. If, at ANY point and for ANY reason, they decide not to share their cookies - they don't owe you anything. You still have access to the ingredients. It's just this particular chef you want cookies from. Pay up or cook for yourself, but what would happen if you demanded free cookies from a coworker? That's their time and effort you're claiming you're owed.

If you don't like that they want compensation, then don't eat the cookies. Let other people pay for them, and be glad when the people who paid are willing to share their paid-for cookies with everyone at work.

Oh look, another "I'll make an argument that people are stupid but when asked to explain why I'll just bullshit excuse my way out of it!" response. You made the argument, you back it the fuck up or you fuck off.

Are you still the same anon who's obsessed with people "owing" you? Because you're completely missing the point of why people in this thread are pissed.

No one's saying the writer owes them jack. People have issues with paying for fanfiction, period.

No, I'm just sick of arguing this again and again. Go find an actual person offering fanfic commissions and see how it really works. Remedy your ignorance. Don't rely on me to do it for you.

People have issues for paying for fanfiction WHY

You trace the logic back and it goes to "holding updates hostage" or "fanworks should be free"

I'm not arguing the second point. As long as fanart is being commissioned, holding fanfic to a different standard is absurd.

The hostage thing goes back to the cookies. You have no right to what's in the author's hands, so it can't be held hostage from you.

You're not arguing again and again. You came here, you're talking to me (and to my knowledge I've never had this discussion with you before). You make a point you refuse to back up, instead tell anyone who asks you to "educate yourselves" when we're not the ones making the point.

If it doesn't matter enough to you to bother backing your argument up, then sorry, I'm not gonna take you seriously at all.

ahhahahah

So I make a point
You refuse to address the point
because you are ignorant and don't want to change that fact

I did address the point.

The only one here not addressing the point they themselves are using as the crutch of their argument is you.

Nice try, troll.

And now you will continue to hide behind your ignorance by...calling me a troll because I called you out on not knowing what you're talking about.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-10 08:39 (UTC) - Expand

"But why won't you read the books for me?" the student whines to the librarian.

"But why can't you just tell me the answer?" the student whines to the teacher.

"Where are the books you're telling me I need to read?"

"I'm not telling you, go educate yourself."

So you don't even know of any authors offering fanfic commissions.

Yes I do. They saw a quick route to make easy money and have their ego stroked. Not exactly rocket science.

Oh, you're right! It should be,

"I don't want to do the work myself. Tell me what the answer is," the student said to the classmate.

You know for all the time and effort you're taking making stupid disingenuous comments like this, you could have concisely answered the question in the first place.

You know this is Fandom Secrets and not a examined course, right?

NAYRT
That is totally and completely different. Cookie making is something that person did on their own. A fic writer is taking materials from someone else and making something from it. This would be more like a cookie maker saying, "I have access to a Dunkin Donuts. I am going to go in there and use their supplies and their kitchen to make you donuts. And I'm going to charge you for these donuts, but Dunkin Donuts gets none of that money." You had better believe that Dunkin Donuts would be coming after this person. As that is illegal. Profiting off of fanfic is illegal as well. Fanfic is a grey area as it is, and I don't want a lot of people profiting off of it, such that it draws the attention of copyright holders/corporations as that will pretty much be the end of it.

More like they use their own supplies to make donuts, but brand them as Dunkin Donuts to get more people to buy.

Do you feel that way about fanart?

Sort of, but it's more like the person fucking loves Dunkin Donuts and makes an imitation out of love, but gets attention because a lot other people fucking love Dunkin Donuts and haha metaphors suck.

I completely agree. I don't see why people are acting like it's not a legal issue.

And if they are so hell bent on making profit, and they are not i it for the profit why not use something like Kindle Worlds so the originators of the works gets credit/money and it's (supposedly) legal?

Because the person bringing up this I OWE U NUTHIN! argument has some personal beef with the topic and refuses to acknowledge those issues or arguments while all the time claiming other people aren't acknowledging arguments they won't back up.

It's a troll, don't waste your time.

It's either equal with fanart -- or both are equally illegal.

Of course both are equally illegal? Why is that even in question?

For some reason, people find fanart commissioning more acceptable, but that doesn't make it any more legal than commissioning fanart. You're treading more into potential trademark violations, especially with fanart of already visual mediums, but still not legal.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-10 09:03 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-10 09:05 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-10 09:13 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-11-10 22:16 (UTC) - Expand

I'm just gonna repost this here:

I think you've gotta stop thinking of this in terms of commissions and fanfiction and look at it from a business perspective.

Giving someone part of a product for one price, and then saying that she can't get the rest of the product unless she pays more (despite the original agreement involving only the initial price), is not good business practice. In the real world, with a real product, not only would customers be pissed, but that business could face legal trouble.

Someone starting a fanwork for one price (in this case, for free), and then changing the pricing after the fact, is more analogous to that than to baking cookies.

On another note, saying "you're all speaking out of ignorance on how fic commissions work" isn't really pertinent to the argument. It doesn't matter how fic commissions work if people are against the idea of commissions in general, and what you are not addressing is why it is okay to sell fanworks. And no, "writers don't owe you anything" is not an argument for why commissions are acceptable; it's only an argument for why readers shouldn't expect any particular person to produce fic for them.

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