[ SECRET POST #2869 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2869 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 061 secrets from Secret Submission Post #410.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

12. http://i.imgur.com/v9gn4lu.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

I agree if we're talking about Anansi Boys

but not if we're talking about American Gods

[(Anonymous)]

Was Fat Charlie in American Gods?

[(Anonymous)]

...I assume you're referring to Shadow with that comment but I definitively think this secret applies to him as well. He's described pretty plainly as not white.
Multiple times.

[(Anonymous)]

we've had this argument a million times before and I am never going to agree with you

he's not described pretty plainly as not white multiple times. the fact that he's not white is alluded to multiple times. there is a difference between those things.

[(Anonymous)]

IA, but you'll never convince the people who for some reason INSIST that just because other characters treat Shadow as if he's clearly not white doesn't mean that Shadow isn't a white guy. I'm not sure why they need race to be spelled out in three foot letters before they'll allow the possibility that the protagonist is of mixed race, but I'm sure they have perfectly non-bigoted reasons. /sarcasm

I guess the fact that Gaiman's said that Shadow isn't white counts for nothing with them, either.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that he's black

i don't agree that the fact that he's black is so clearly and unambiguously stated that no reasonable reader could miss it. i think it's fairly easy to miss and i don't blame anyone who does so.

[(Anonymous)]

I have no frame of reference for this character or book, but I get the feeling that you're the same sort of person who talks about all the words nobody should say because it's bad connotation has become the default meaning.

And yet, you're more than happy to call people racist. Acknowledging that there's a more accurate phrase without a bad connotation means squat if you're not going to use it where it counts.

[(Anonymous)]

I literally have no idea what the fuck you're talking about

[(Anonymous)]

I can't imagine someone being so dense as to not recognize that Fat Charlie's black. Have you actually come across this?

(I agree with the above commenter about American Gods.)

[(Anonymous)]

I'll admit that I really had no idea whether or not Rosie was supposed to be black until she was described to be so about 2/3 of the way through the book. My mental picture of her kept going back and forth.

But not Fat Charlie and his family.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

That's funny, I was the same way about Rosie!

[(Anonymous)]

Apparently Neil Gaiman ran across this when people were interested in optioning the book - they didn't realise the main characters were black and were quite offended when he insisted there had to be a clause to keep them that way.

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't read that specific book yet, but I agree that there are always tons of white readers who miss incredibly blunt statements of race (Rue in Hunger Games being one stunning example) let alone subtle ones.

Personally I have the problem where unless I make a special effort, I picture characters as looking like whatever random actor or actress comes to mind -- usually someone who has played an entirely different character with a similar name -- regardless of description. I can't be alone in that failing. Readers need descriptions early in a work, or we make up our own and can't shake them. Recently I read an entire book thinking the main character was black, due to geographic location and hair style, only to have her refer to herself as "white trash" (ugh) in the final chapter.

[diet_poison]

...how do you miss Rue being black?

[(Anonymous)]

It all hinges on the part where it says that Rue reminds Katniss of Prim, so clearly that means they must look identical and that means white?? I guess??

[cakemage]

I've heard people honestly say that they didn't realize she was black because she was so sweet and innocent. I wish I was kidding.

[(Anonymous)]

I actually know a few people who pictured her as Latina, myself included. I don't know why in particular- I assume it was the combination of "dark" and agricultural work brought to mind current trends rather than historical, and I still maintain that it was one valid reading. I think the movies went further with the Civil Rights metaphor so black was absolutely the right choice for the medium, but just reading the novel and not getting BLACK-BLACK BLACKETY BLACK doesn't make me racist.

Of course, I also argued that population-wise Katniss wasn't likely to be a WOC, and if she was it was likely Native American ancestry. This caused a ridiculous amount of wank and led me to the conclusion that I am too damn old for most fandom stuff.

[(Anonymous)]

Right?! The quote from the book says, "And most hauntingly, a twelve-year-old girl from District 11. She has dark brown skin and eyes, but other than that's she's very like Prim in size and demeanor…"

IT'S. RIGHT. THERE.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not just white readers. People in general tend to mentally assign whatever race is considered "default human" in their particular culture to a character unless either there's a blatant description, or the character codes strongly otherwise to them personally.

[(Anonymous)]

I have this thing where if a character has the name of someone I know, then that's how I see them. I had trouble with a character called Christina once because despite being described as white and blonde, I kept seeing her as olive-skinned with black hair. Sometimes it's not bad reading comprehension, just a stubborn mind that won't let go of things no matter how hard you try to shake the wrong image away.

[(Anonymous)]

I felt this way reading Melissa de la Cruz's Blue Bloods series. de la Cruz's inspiration for Oliver was Adam Brody, but because his name is Oliver, I kept picturing a blond guy because of Ryan O'Neal's Oliver in Love Story. Same with Jack, who actually IS supposed to be blond. I kept picturing him as the brooding, tall, dark, and handsome type.

[(Anonymous)]

Meh, Neil Gaiman.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

[arcadiaego]

I can just about understand it with Shadow but yeah if you miss that in Anansi Boys then I have no other explanation.