[ SECRET POST #2873 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2873 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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04.
[Naruto]


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05. [ SPOILERS for Doctor Who ]



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06. [ SPOILERS for Doctor Who ]



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07. [ SPOILERS for Doctor Who ]



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08. [ SPOILERS for Spartacus ]



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09. [ WARNING for suicide ]




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10. [ WARNING for child abuse ]



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11. [ WARNING for child porn ]



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12. [ WARNING for sexual assault ]



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13. [ WARNING for rape ]

[Doctor Who]



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14. [ WARNING for rape ]



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15. [ WARNING for rape ]

[Days of Our Lives]


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16. [ WARNING for rape ]



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17. [ WARNING for rape ]



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18. [ WARNING for incest ]



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19. [ WARNING for suicide ]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #410.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

12. [ WARNING for sexual assault ]
http://i.imgur.com/I8wFbET.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

i think you responded to the wrong secret.

[silverr]

ooops, you're right! sorry!

[(Anonymous)]

How anyone can still be surprised that Amanda Palmer can be a tone deaf asshole is beyond me.

[(Anonymous)]

LOL, seriously

[visp]

Of all the things to be annoyed with her about, her deciding to shut up until she felt she knew more a subject... yeah, that one I'm ok with.

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, when a dozen people come forward all reporting sexual abuse by one dude who's apparently well known for it in his city, I'm not sure how much more info she needs. One accusation? I can maybe understand. Twelve, and one of the victims is a dude? Wow.

[visp]

It's not like what she says makes any difference, so there's no reason why she has to be in a hurry to say it.

[(Anonymous)]

Well there is that whole innocent until proven guilty thing.

[evewithanapple]

That's a legal rule, not a social one. The general public is under no obligation to believe in Ghomeshi's innocence and disbelieve the women who have come forward.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt - Excellent point, and one that people often miss.

[(Anonymous)]

The general public is under no obligation to believe in Ghomeshi's guilt, either, which, you know, look at the above secret. Also giving in to the court of public opinion over the legal system is a terrible trend to start given that the legal system, while not perfect, is going to by the end of the thing have access to far more facts than the public has right now.

The reason for "Innocent until proven guilty" in a legal system is to forgo punishment until all the facts have been gathered. While in this case it does seem as if all the facts that matter are already front and centre, there are two problems here:

1. How do we know, for certain (and I think you will agree certainty is an important part of making sure the guilty get punished and the innocent do not) that we are not missing some fact that will show his innocence? Highly unlikely, but not impossible. Should we really all just condemn him now on the likelihood of guilt when the possibility of innocence remains? Should we really be condemning Amanda Palmer for opting to wait until all the facts that can be gathered are in before condemning the guy? (Caveat: Miscarriages of justice are a thing, and once all the evidence is in, all the facts all the accusations and defences are known, if the verdict does not fit with what you believe once you know all the info, then you can condemn away. my problem is condemnation from a position of relative ignorance.)

2. When "It's obvious to me XXXXX is totally guilty, I've seen all that I need to to know this for a fact" becomes the prevailing way of determining guilt, at least for the public, where do we stop?
Black guy gunned down on a bus? "Well he was XXXXX, or had done XXXXX in the past"
Not a legal fact, but pretty dickish if everyone was expected to do this without first knowing all the facts?

Final point "The general public is under no obligation to believe in Ghomeshi's innocence" At least 12 of them ARE under that obligation. and the culture espoused in the above secret make it damn difficult to find the 12 people who are willing to believe in innocent untill proven guilty.

SA

[(Anonymous)]

While discussing this situation with my girlfriend, It was made quite apparent that this line of thinking, this whole argument from my side is infact utterly Pro-Rape.

I did not mean for this to be the case, I really thought I was auguring for some... i dunno, somthing else? but non-the less this is is me, arguing in the long run that rape is acceptable, and so I wish for my entire comment to be disregarded.

I am deeply sorry for my sentiments. I meant no harm. Sorry.

Re: SA

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think it is pro-rape at all, anon, I think it's just acknowledgement of a hard reality. Rape is one of the hardest crimes to get a conviction for because so often there is no incontrovertible physical evidence, and it comes down to one person's word against the other. A justice system has to rely on there being no reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty, and in cases where the argument is just over whether the victim consented and all you have is their word that they didn't, it's hard to get rid of that doubt. Statistically, the accused is probably guilty, but 12 people have to sit there and decide whether this case is on trend or an anomaly

Of course, society being what it is at the moment, the fact that they usually have no fucking clue and think that the accused's guilt would be the anomaly lets the whole thing down. Those 12 idiots are the problem, really. Being tried by a jury of your peers sounds like a brilliant idea, especially when you realise that your peers think that if a black man gets shot it's because black men are more likely to commit crimes, or that there's no such thing as too drunk to consent, or basically agree with your moral worldview.

[evewithanapple]

Well in this specific case, I'm disinclined to believe in Amanda Palmer's good intentions so far as defending Ghomeshi goes. She's proven time and time again that her interest isn't in justice; it's in self-promotion. And she'll say or do pretty much anything, so long as it will whip up controversy and get people talking about her. She's like that kid in your grade school class who'd act out to get the teacher's attention, except she's a grown-ass woman who should be long past that stage in life.

[(Anonymous)]

Tell that one to the Duke Lacrosse players who were falsely accused of rape once upon a time.

[(Anonymous)]

Did she make a big deal about people judging him to quickly or did she just not comment on it for a while?

I doubt most people were waiting with bated breath to hear what she thought about the situation and it's not like it's her job to make proclamations about these things. She's not obligated to publicly pick a side every time, especially if she didn't feel she had enough info.

[(Anonymous)]

She made a point of publicly throwing her support behind him.

[(Anonymous)]

Ahh, well that's a bit different then.

[(Anonymous)]

Not quite. He was scheduled to be a guest at her show. After the story broke initially, she said he was still going to be a guest because she didn't shy away from difficult things, etc, etc. When the story got bigger and more and more of her fans let her know how much it bothered them that she was still going to have him there, she said she no longer would. (I'm sure he would have cancelled anyway, what with apparently going completely underground.)

I don't know or care about Amanda Palmer positively or negatively, just clarifying the story a bit. She didn't publicly throw her support behind him as you say.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

She also said in response to the allegations: "what happens behind closed doors is never knowable", which is pretentious nonsense-speak, especially when you weigh it against a dozen firsthand witnesses.

Anon talking about "Innocent until proven" above

[(Anonymous)]

Ah. Fair enough. Staying silent is one thing, but Support is quite another.

I feel most of my points stand, but, yes, Amanda Palmer's stance is fairly dickish.