[ SECRET POST #2890 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2890 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 042 secrets from Secret Submission Post #413.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[arcadiaego]

Curious as to why you say that about Da Vinci's Demons as it's one of the few shows I can think of that *does* have an explicitly bi character. (More than one actually but Leo is the only one who's been *shown* having relationships with men and women rather than just references.)

[(Anonymous)]

Da Vinci was gay. What relationships with men? Granted I gave it up after S1 but some fleeting smooching with a male prostitute who prosecuted him in court and then getting elbows deep in pussy as a conclusion of the same episode does not a relationship make.

[arcadiaego]

Leonardo lived in Renaissance Italy and thought sex was disgusting, so gay isn't the term I would choose. I wouldn't say that sleeping with two women, one of whom drugged him first (the only sex of any kind he was involved in during the second season), during the course of two seasons of the show was elbows deep in pussy either. He doesn't really have romantic relationships with anyone, so it depends what definition you're going by. If you're angry that there hasn't been a gay sex scene that's one thing, as is the view that it's wrong to portray someone as bisexual when they weren't. But to say Goyer wanted to censor homosexuality is another - if had wanted there to be no hint of slash, as you say, then the show could easily have ignored the sodomy trial incident, not have had any references to male relationships, not have him bonding with his father figure talking about how he studied music to impress a boy and other characters talking about pulling blokes etc etc People behind the show including the actors wouldn't have talked about their characters sexuality either. That's why I assume that the issue with Constantine is the network.

(As for the guy prosecuting him in court, the real Leonardo was prosecuted for being in a male brothel, but in the show the guy testified against him because he felt like he'd been thrown off.)

[(Anonymous)]

Of course I was/maybe still am a little angry.
A) He takes a known gay historical figure, makes him bi
B) Proceeds to show him explicitly getting it on only with women (a woman, even though the ex-nun was with him too, can't remember if that was as explicit), and elbow deep in pussy was what literally happened at the end of the court episode in the bath tub scene
C) The one guy he is shown to have something with is a treacherous male prostitute, and pretty much comes off as an experiment for "don't label me" Leo.

Only talking about season 1 though, I saw some snippets of the 2nd but have no idea where it all went. But you can see how this could alienate some people I hope?

I did see some titles about the showrunner maybe going more gay route for LdV if the show gets a 3rd season but I think everyone who cared gave up long ago.

[arcadiaego]

As a bisexual person I find the fact that there's an openly bisexual lead (the guy in the sodomy trial isn't the first or last man it's mentioned he's been with, just the only one he's kissed on screen) and another bisexual character is really welcome for me. I guess because Leonardo is one of my pet subjects and both being shopped by someone he was sleeping with and having a somewhat dysfunctional attitude to relationships is true to life it doesn't bother me so much. I can see that if you thought he was gay then it would be offensive and even though he was probably asexual he is traditionally seen as a gay icon so obviously that's hurt people, and rightly so. On the other hand I get someone telling me on Tumblr pretty much on a weekly basis that I shouldn't watch the show because Da Vinci is straight and obviously there's only the two options so it starts to get on my wick after a while. Anyway my tl;dr point is that Goyer doesn't have a problem with mentioning bisexuality so I assume it's the network's issue with Constantine.

pretty much comes off as an experiment for "don't label me" Leo.

It was in reaction to the guy saying that he couldn't possibly feel anything 'real' for women, which is something most bisexual people have been told so again I'm biased towards the scene. I think the fact that he realised he'd treated the guy badly meant that the other man wasn't portrayed just as a devious hooker. Plus the point of the episode is that he could easily say he's innocent and he won't out of principle. The show did try to start off a bit more like the Tudors but there's not really much sex or romance in the second series for Leo personally (there's still sexy ladies, because obviously). There's one sex scene but he was drugged (long and pretty ridiculous story).

[(Anonymous)]

I agree it's probably an NBC thing. And fwiw I am mostly over the da Vinci thing, I pretend that show is about some other dude. He was and still is one of my favourite historical figures ever, disappointment over one show will never change that.

I don't know what Constantine's problem is wrt wider public tbh, those numbers sure are weird for an NBC show (with a male lead).

[arcadiaego]

Yeah I don't know why Constantine shouldn't be doing better unless the pilot (which was terrible) put people off. But other shows have survived crappier pilots.

[glo_unit]

Man I wish I would have replied earlier.

I wouldn't assume it's NBC's issue, at least not outright. With how the gay characters are treated on Days of Our Lives I don't think they have major issues with gay character, although bisexuality is a slightly different issue so that might be it.

From what some others have said John's bisexuality is the comics is treated like female bisexuality in early00's TV. Remember when a female character met a girl they liked then they dated for a few episodes to then break up, and the female character's relationship with a woman was rarely if ever brought up again? It sounds a lot like how the comics overall treat Johns bisexuality. It was only a part of one major arc and only a few latter writers referenced John's bisexuality. With that some fans don't think it is a big deal that he may be heterosexual in the show, and a few fans insisting John is actually straight. It's unfortunate but John Constantine may be a victim of bi erasure even in the original comics. With what I remember of the comments about John's sexuality of the show I think maybe Goyer didn't understand that many people would be upset that John may be straight on the show, because it is not shown through much of the comic.

Also maybe because the type of show it is, being a genre show based on a comic, it is probably generally assumed that the major audience for this show are males in their 20's and possibly 30's, either NBC or Goyer wanted to minimize John's bisexuality in order not to possibly alienate what would be assumed the main audience for this show.

Either way I don't think it quite as clear cut as either NBC or Goyer having a problem with male bisexuality or homosexuality.

[arcadiaego]

To be honest I don't actually know much about Constantine in the comics but I think people are overlooking the fact that the original source material doesn't seem to share the view of the character they have most of the time either. Which is a shame. I'm British and the only other NBC show I watch is Hannibal which has ridiculous double standards imposed on it re. sexual content as opposed to violence etc but I don't know what they're like generally. Bisexuality is *very* different from homosexuality in many people's minds though and plenty of people just ignore it because they don't understand the concept.