[ SECRET POST #355]

[shahni.livejournal.com]

⌈ Secret Post #355 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

- Name that fandom, first comment!
- also, 21? We love the secrets we get. Thatandwe'reprettythickskinned♥

Secrets Left to Post: 6 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #051
Secrets Not Posted: [1] broken links, [1] not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [1] too small, [1] too big.
Next Secret Post: Thursday, December 27th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: Here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

26. Not to go completely ape shit on you, because I don't know those fandoms, but:

Have you ever thought about that as an entire gender, women tend to far harsher on other women and by extension female characters then we are on men? Not just straight women, because I know a gay girl in fandom who dislikes a majority of the female characters for really, no reason whatsoever and claims it is certain 'faults' in their characters but allows other male characters to have the same faults without disliking them. The female characters that do tend to be portrayed as 'cooler' are always the ones who have more masculine strengths and personalities. There isn't anything wrong with that, but the way in which it shows up is. That if you are a woman, if you have typically girly qualities and strengths then you end up getting called weak, or whiny. But as long as you can be like a guy, but still hot? That's fine.

It's just curious really. That you really can't find ANY female characters in your fandoms that you like^

[haro.livejournal.com]

I agree with you (good analysis of fandom and that's what I've always thought is what's happening) until this.

The female characters that do tend to be portrayed as 'cooler' are always the ones who have more masculine strengths and personalities. There isn't anything wrong with that, but the way in which it shows up is.

I do see something wrong with that. It's just such a huge double standard that female characters are only liked if they act like men. That's the complete opposite of a feminist viewpoint, isn't it? I mean that's not to say female characters must have 100% traditionally feminine traits. Not at all. However, it's just silly that the most well-liked female characters are the ones that "act most like men."

One of the reasons I questioned some of the characters on her list is because they're really bashed in fandom for not fitting those stereotypes.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't think the person you were responding to was actually supporting that statement--I think (s)he was pointing it out as one of the problems with both canon and fandom. The sentence that follows is a little ambiguous, but I think in combination with the rest of the comment it's obviously more along the lines of, 'It's okay for more masculine girls to be cool, but that's not the way it actually happens.'

(to the commenter: sorry if I'm misrepresenting you!)

[haro.livejournal.com]

Oh I know they weren't and I did agree with them up to that point. I'm mixed about the original secret. I agree with the sentiment of that character type being just as cliche (and wish fandom would acknowlege that), but I don't get the hate and I don't agree with some of the characters they chose to fit it.

But if they are saying it's okay to like more masculine girls but that shouldn't make them better than girls who aren't, then I agree with the whole comment.

I agree with a later comment that characters should be judged on a char to char basis instead of based on a "type."

[runonmoonlight.livejournal.com]

ahh, okay, uh, I completely spaced and didn't realize I anon commented there. Um, *headdesk* [seriously, LJ keeps randomly signing me out, and losing my log-in cookies, it's highly annoying, I never log out]

annwyd got what I was trying to say. What I mean by "showed up", was more the portrayal from writers and fans, that because of certain traits these characters are inherantly cooler/more fun to write/more interesting.

Female characters can be all types of things and be cool and be liked, but when you look at trends of what is popular (what is being written, and what has more fans) you notice it. I'm thinking for example in SGA of some people people disliking Elizabeth because they think she's weak (which they can't actually argue anymore, at all), and liking Teyla. When in fact they both have a lot of the same traits, it's just that Teyla can defend herself physically and kick ass, and Elizabeth is completely non-violent.

[annwyd.livejournal.com]

Yeessss. :/

But to be fair, the OP didn't actually say she didn't like any female characters in her fandoms.

#26 OP

[(Anonymous)]

Like I said to someone else, there are male characters stereotypes I hate too, and plenty female characters I like. (Yes, and some are even tsunderes.) But I didn't mention them because they're not relevant to this secret.

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

Well, female characters are more commonly landed with a set of underdeveloped stock traits that rarely have any function but to be an amusing backdrop or simply props to make a point about the male character.

Also, they almost never get any character development, no trials to go through, no conflicts to solve, no chance to grow in the series. They're completely static, and in those cases it doesn't help how many positive traits they've got; people will still generally be bored.

The female characters that do tend to be portrayed as 'cooler' are always the ones who have more masculine strengths and personalities.

I also sick and tired of the sentiment that courage, drive, nobility, and thirst for adventure are somehow reserved for the men. Didn't you dream of being a hero when you were little? Didn't you identufy just as well with the protagonists (who generally were boys BTW) who went on adventures? Why is it so strange for women to have these qualities? And why does admiring them in a woman somehow make you betray womanhood?

In short, why can't a woman be a PERSON first, and not have to represent the whole of womenkind?

[agawa-jean.livejournal.com]

In short, why can't a woman be a PERSON first, and not have to represent the whole of womenkind? This is exactly what I want out of female characters. To be a character, not a "female character".