fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2907 ]

[ SECRET POST #2907 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2907 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 012 secrets from Secret Submission Post #415.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Because if going to college for writing is not the same as writing, dingus.

I just finished describing my own experience in university courses. You learn an awful lot about writing in general, but it's nowhere near the same as practicing it yourself.

It's like someone attending art lectures but only turning in the minimum required pieces to satisfy course requirements. OF COURSE they're not going to get good. It takes years of practice to get good, not a couple of months in a course.

There's a reason most of the successes in writing come when a writer is into their 40's and 50's, and that's because in general they've been writing for decades by then.

I was making the point to say if you spend all those years on college and can't improve then how is writing by yourself without the aid of the contacts, professors, and other available help you get through college going to help?

Were you even majoring in creative writing? Because it's a far cry from majoring in English or something vaguely attached to writing. And sure if you go to college just doing the minim in anything that's all you'll get, the minimum. It doesn't matter what your degree is. You need to network with people and professors in your degree, do extra classes or a minor in field your weak in or want to specialize in, join groups, etc. Of course you will get nothing out of a writing class unless you go out of the way to try and do extra.

Sure practicing is good in theory. But it can also only get you so far. You need proof readers, writing buddies, etc etc. Just working on your own only gets you so far.

And whether people like to admit it or not there is a glass ceiling if you don't have talent. Even if fan fic writing. You can try and much as you want but their will always be that epic writer who does long fic, can keep their plot straight, doesn't go OOC, and is generally superior to you in every damn way and that you can't and won't reach their level.

That's just a writing misnomer. I've met 40-50 somethings in writing groups that can't write for shit.

Stop acting like it's some precedent that hard work and effort will eventually make you win. Because it reality there are people that always fall on their face and never win. People can want to do something so bad, but don't have the talent and no amount of practice will make them better or give them the self confidence they need to know they are decent and get better. It's insulting to lie and act like time can indefinitely make someone better, because it doesn't apply to everyone.

I did admit the ceiling is there, but that it exists to separate the good writers from the truly excellent writers. I wasn't an English major; my first few years at University were spent as a writing major.

You don't have to be a published author to be a good writer.

Shit, I don't even know why I'm bothering with this response, because you clearly came out of university level writing buying into the crap that they try to feed you in there, which in my experience amounted to: you'll never be good, no matter what you do.

Good luck with your negativity, but telling people to stop trying is the opposite of helpful and it seems like everyone here realizes that already.

But that's not true. The ceiling is multi layered for a variety of people, and some people can't even break into the realm of crappy writer.

Are you honestly trying to tell me there is no such thing as a bad writers, or a bad fan fic writers and everyone is good? Because I'd be more than happy to share with you the awful Harry Potter fanfic that had no warning and had Harry fucking his dead dad. It wasn't even the subject that was offensive. It read like a third grader wrote it. Then tell me no bad fan fic authors exist.

Of course you don't have to be published author to be a good author. If you did 50 shades, Twilight, 70% of the published world wouldn't even exist if that were so.

No I don't buy into that. I do believe there are people who are good authors. There are people who write better fan fics than the drivel they publish anymore. But am I deluded into thinking everyone's is a good writer? No. And I certainly don't buy into your write write write theory because there are a great deal of people who would love to write, draw, paint, do sculptures, etc... and they can practice for all eternity and will never be good.

I may be a negative pessimist, but I'd rather be that than subscribe to your after school special everyone gets a medal and can achieve whatever they dream unrealistic optimism. Because in the end your optimistic opinions only sets up for a bigger downfall and disappointment when the person can't achieve anything, especially after years of trying.

Bad writers stay bad because they aren't working on themselves. Because they think they're awesome writers already. When someone tells you to keep writing and write a lot, they don't mean hitting the keyboard like a rabid monkey. They're talking about pushing your limits. When someone tells you to keep reading and read a lot, they're not telling you to mindlessly consume and accept everything and then incorporate it into your own writing.

It's still work. That's not a "everyone gets a medal" ... that's "everyone can get a medal, here's what you can do, but you'll have to work for it and you may still not be as great as you'd like to be. Are you prepared for that? Good. Go."

Ok well if this is true and it's all hard work that makes you better then why can't everyone succeed after hard work? Sure they won't win the first or third of twentieth time. But what about the 1000th time? Or twenty years after trying they still suck? What do you say then? Why can't everyone do some art form they love? Not talking professionally, just even as a hobby or whatever?

Mayyyyyybbbbeeeee, just maybe, because some talent is required unless you like writing crap fic and drawing stick figures? Which is fine if you want to spend your life doing that, but will it fulfill you?

But they can. They may still be just okay, but why does that bother you so much? Is something not worth doing/trying just because you most likely won't be amazing at it?

Besides, if you practiced for a decade, you will not still draw stick figures -- unless your practice consisted of whining about how bad you are on fandomsecrets.

But they may not. You don't know. You're throwing optimism around like it's a reality. And it more of a crap sentimentality that everyone's acting like everyone can succeed at something if they try really hard. I get we are on the internet but I thought people could face reality without getting so butthurt about the possibility at total failure at something.

God you're all so after school special delusional about this shit it's amusing.

Ok I'll go back to drawing stick figures. Wanna bend over so I can remove the one that got lodged in your ass darling?

And since when do people no whine on FS?

No one is talking about success here. Except you. No one is getting angry either. Except you.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-12-19 04:15 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-12-19 04:17 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-12-19 19:25 (UTC) - Expand

Yeah, no. For someone who claims to be a writer, you really seem like you need some work on your reading comprehension. The only thing I've been saying this entire time is that in order to get good at writing you need to write. A LOT.

Most people aren't willing to put that effort in, but it works every time.

People who don't put the work in fail. It's pretty simple and it doesn't just apply to writing, it applies to everything. That's why your peers in college never made it, not because they had something innate that made them bad writers; biological determinism applies to being able to grow gills and breathe underwater, not to the specific level of writing potential an individual might have.

What you believe doesn't bother me at all though, to be frank. My success (and the success of anyone else in this thread) is not contingent on your approval of my ideology or my methodology.

No you made it seem like every fic writer is good, you left no room for bad fic writer.

And no hard work doesn't work every time, and not everyone that works hard does not fail. This only applies when you live in after school special worlds with rose colored glasses do you always succeed and everyone gets a gold star.

found the troll

Doxxing me because I hurt your feel feels?

Do you ... even know what doxxing means?

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2014-12-19 04:19 (UTC) - Expand

I agree with that multi layered ceiling. seems like a lot of people are getting pissed because you're not selling them the American Dream Of Hard Work (TM).

I have so much resentment for people who claim that you either have it or you don't and practice and hard work means shit.

I know that I'm lucky to have a good basic understanding of words and such, and I know that I'm a far-cry from being The Best, or even The Best I Will Ever Be, but I'm a damn sight better than I was last year, and that's because I sat down and wrote.

I worked hard to get as good as I am. I wasn't born writing, and when I started I was nowhere near as good as I am now. I got that way through hard work, and seeing someone imply that you get good because you either just are or you aren't is just spitting in the face of all the hard work that I've done to get good.

Also, y'know, the only people I met who were bad are the ones who think that they're super-special-awesome and therefore don't need to improve and don't need any criticism, and the ones who think that they're so awful that they shouldn't even try, and they especially shouldn't step outside of their boundaries.

Edited 2014-12-19 02:49 (UTC)

Rock on, you.

Don't listen to that anon. They've been sold on the lie. It doesn't take innate talent at writing to become good at it, though it probably does to become really excellent.

They're just parroting what the academic creative writing community tries to drill into you as soon as you enter it, and that is that you'll never be a great writer unless you write exactly like they say you should. Never listen to that shit. It's not true. It's a tactic to make you insecure about your own accomplishments and submit to the value judgements they place on your work.

You just keep doing you.

You missed my point but ok...

But you proved my other point. You had some understanding of words, and could work them well enough to write and you improved though writing more.

I didn't say it was absolutely impossible for every people to improve, or at least not have some improvement, and to improve through write write write. But you have to have a drive for it, like you did. You can't have a whole lot of self doubt. OP is doubt themselves already or they wouldn't be saying I can't write.

What I am saying is it's bullshit to give false hope like everyone who works hard will always succeed. Not everyone can get better no matter how much effort you put in. And putting this sentiment out there is spitting in the face of those who couldn't succeed and did really try.

You seem to think I made a lot of generalizations about hard work and got pretty butthurt, but you're equally making generalizations.

Your writing is deteriorating a lot. Perhaps you should leave before it becomes completely illegible. You're obviously affected by something at the moment.

And you saying, "OP doubts themselves so they should just give up" is spitting in the face of people who overcome their doubts and go on to do great things.

OP might not even be bad at writing. They may just have low self-esteem. Instead of helping, you're basically just saying, "welp, you'll never be able to do anything since you have low self-esteem, so just stop writing and don't listen to these people who are telling you there are things you can do." As if low self-esteem and doubt are permanent conditions. Well, sorry that you failed. But just like the fact that other people succeeded doesn't mean everyone else will, the fact that you failed doesn't mean every person like OP will.

But it's good to know that when I was filled with self-doubt and completely paralyzed and couldn't do a goddamn thing, YOU think I should've just curled up in a ball and stopped trying. YOU think I should've just let my life waste away instead of finding it in myself to keep going. I'll take all that "false hope" of other posters over your self-destructive self-pitying shit anyday.

And there are some of us who looked at our problems and gave up, but decided not to let it get us down either.

I think I write more now in RP than I could ever get out as fic. Big blocks of writing intimidate me, destroy my motivation and incite my laziness. RP can be done in small bites and with immediate response from fellow players. Sometimes you need to find your format.

I think it's bullshit to tell people they may not be able to get better.

By advising them to try improving, they can decide for themselves if they want to do the hard work, and if they do it, good for them. If they don't... I hope they come to accept their problems and correctly identify it as a wish not to do the hard work (lack of motivation or laziness? Could be either or both).

I like you.

DA--The problem with saying some people aren't cut out to write well no matter the work they put in is that before you know if you're gonna be one of those unlucky people, you still have to do the damn work. Judging people on their potential, rather than their finished work, is a great way to scare some people out of trying while making others think they're so great there's no room for them to improve. This is true of every skill ever. You have to be willing to do the work to get good.

And that's not even getting into different rubrics people use to define quality. Lots of people like it? Cool. People will spit on it for being lowbrow. Still widely read a hundred years after your death? Hope you believe in ghosts because otherwise how the fuck will you know? Critically acclaimed by others who share you refined taste? Enjoy your snobbery. All of the above? Who do you think you are, Shakespeare?

Yeah, some people never achieve greatness no matter the work they put in, but just because your writing didn't make you a millionaire, a critical darling, or the bane of freshman English students everywhere doesn't mean they're all abject failures.

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