fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #358 ]

⌈ Secret Post #358 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Oh yeah, go contribute if you haven't (and want to)!

Secrets Left to Post: 12 pages, 289 secrets from Secret Submission Post #052.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [ 1 ] repeat, [ 1 ] parody.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Sunday, December 30th, 2007.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm not in any anime fandoms anymore and maybe this is more of a real problem in anime, although I doubt it, but I'm addressing this as fandom as a whole:

24) I have never seen any feminist fans bash a character solely because she is feminine. Criticize stereotypes or dichotomies of females in fandoms, sure, but not hate a character just because she wears dresses, likes pink, etc. In fact, it's the feminist fans, including myself, who I see call others on their sexism when they call females "sluts" or such for daring to be "feminine" and/or be near a male.

Which connects to

41) Disliking a character for legitimate reasons does not make anyone sexist.

But female characters are often hated not for legitimate reasons but solely for being female. I have seen so many women bashed and called names just for having regular flaws, wearing the wrong clothing, and so on. They are called sluts and bitches just because they sometimes talk to a male character. They are called whores if they aren't "pure" or have only one love interest. They are often held to standards that male characters are not.

(Male characters getting occasionally criticized for being "weak" is stupid, but it does not negate this because that still plays into sexist ideals of weak=feminine/feminine=weak.)

That is hateful and sexist.

I agree with this entire comment~

Ooh, and don't forget the characters who are automatically sluts because they have big boobs!

(Or the real people who get picked on for the same reason. What? Double D's but you won't put out for me? Whore.)

Isn't bullying fun? XP

Oh god, how could I forget that one? Which extends to other things, like clothing that would be fine on anyone else is instantly slutty on a female with a larger bust.

THANK YOU. I am the biggest prude you'll meet, and I've got the biggest boobs out of my group of friends but people always say I pad my bra or I'm pleading for attention from the boys (I'm a bloody lesbian! xD) and all this crap.

Yeah, I get that too. I'm a, for lack of better word, tomboy. I don't think I've ever show cleavage and yet I get so many snide comments about my boobs. It drives me insane. One of the worst offenders has large bosoms herself, which really confuses me.

It's a mad world ._.

I am a more of a girly girl, and I hate what that kind of treatment has done to me; I'm sometimes really self-conscious about buying the same tops any smaller-chested girl would wear for fear of showing "too much" cleavage and attracting negative attention. I still buy them because I love them ♥ but I'm sad that I have to think twice about it.

Yeah, that's what I hate about it. I hate that other people's comments make me feel like this. I'd love to wear what I like but, like yourself, I often think "Oh, I better not. I'll never hear the end if it."

41. ...you basically said everything I forgot to bring up in my response. THANK YOU.

Word.

This is what I would say, were I more articulate.

Love from a random mouse.

Wordpie. On both accounts.

Male characters getting occasionally criticized for being "weak" is stupid, but it does not negate this because that still plays into sexist ideals of weak=feminine/feminine=weak.)

Totally agreed.

In the case of 24, I think "feminist" was in quotes to indicate irony. It isn't the real feminist fans who do this; it's fans who claim to be feminist to defend not liking traditionally feminine characters, which is not to say dresses and pink, it's to say supportive, sensitive, "weak" (which I use ironically, since it normally only refers to physical strength), or submissive characters.

Perhaps you haven't seen this, but I have in several of the fandoms I've been involved with, and it really does get old being told that the only way a female character isn't represented in a sexist fashion is if she exhibits traditionally masculine traits. I see where the complaint is coming from.

Ah, true. Personally I wouldn't connect the word "feminist" and anyone who does that, even if the word is in quotes, but that probably is what the author of the secret meant.

I wouldn't either if I hadn't been in shounen anime fandoms.

What Sarolynne said is true. I used quotes in "feminist" to indicate how ironic is to hae fans claiming to be feminists, yet bashing any female charater that isn't, in a friend's words, "a man with boobs".

I still think Integra is a well done character, but when I think of her I can't help being reminded of how her character has been used by these fake feminists as their trophy while bashing any girl who isn't a carbon copy of her. That's also why I said I know it's not the characters' fault necessarily, but I can barely help feeling this way right now. :P

Some examples of fake "feminism", let me shoew them to you:
- http://community.livejournal.com/rabidfanssuck/40038.html
- http://community.livejournal.com/hated_character/333028.html

Hope that helps to explain myself. :)

I hate to say it, but as far as the first link goes, a kind of agree. I do think slash is abundant in fandoms that have either very male-heavy casts or boring female characters.

To pull out a couple of examples - Gundam Wing has a fairly 50/50 gender split, but personally, I've never found the girls all that interesting (though I don't really want to get into why for the sake of tl;dr) and the fandom seems to bend the same way - deserving of it or not, the girls are bashed to high heaven and slash abounds.

Compare this to the Tamora Pierce fandom - if you're not familiar with her books, let me say straight up that it's fantasy for girls and it oozes feminism at every orifice. You have to really dig to find slash in that fandom - in fact, the slash is outweighed by the femmeslash (though granted, there is a canon lesbian couple in one of her books).

The way that poster said it was kinda broad and generalizing, but especially when it comes to anime and Japanese videogames... well, Japan has different gender values, and saying that the sexism doesn't come across in the media is pretty asinine. (For that, though, I'd go back to a secret that I saw a couple of weeks ago here - don't bash the character, bash the CREATOR. The character is never at fault - blame the culture it grew out of.)

You basically said everything I wanted to, but with better words and articulation.

Let's get married!

Sure, why not! Hurray for internet proposals and marriages. :)

Quick! To an internet chapel!

[ SECRET POST #358 ]

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