fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2923 ]

[ SECRET POST #2923 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2923 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 065 secrets from Secret Submission Post #418.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Inspired by secret 9, but not really on topic for the thread.

So, I quit watching season 8 of Doctor Who about halfway through (IIRC the last episode I watched was Kill The Moon) because I wasn't enjoying it. And looking back and analyzing it, one of the main reasons was because it felt like Clara and the Doctor had no chemistry at all. In fact it seemed like they kind of hated each other.

Oh sure they'd always manage to make up in the end, but in between it'd be nothing but fights and insults and anger. It almost felt like Moffat had decided as an experiment to see if he could make a season of Who where the companion and the Doctor didn't get along, and only kept traveling together because Clara loved space travel and the Doctor needed a human to boss him around. And I really just hated that dynamic.

But now... I look at the comments for secret 9 and there's multiple people talking about how great the chemistry between Clara and the Doctor was, and it makes me wonder... like, what? Am I crazy, or did something happen after I stopped watching, or what?

Don't worry about spoilers idgaf

Stopped watching one episode after you did, so I'm probably not the best judge, but I'm assuming not. Mostly because I saw a lot of 12/Clara shippers before I stopped watching, so yeah. They were already shipping off of stuff in the first half of the season.

Sometimes where you or I see no chemistry, other people do. *shrugs*

Yeah, that's fair enough. I definitely can accept that as a possibility. I guess I was almost hoping someone would be able to sell me on it, because I'd like to like it, and also because it's always interesting to me when someone has totally divergent opinions about something. But... Yeah, just not there for me I guess.

I don't know. The way I tend to see it, a lot of shippers run in packs. I'll often see a fandom person who likes Erik/Christine also likes Jareth/Sarah or Zuko/Katara or Guy/Marian or Xena/Ares or Korra/Amon...

Okay, so I villain ship which honestly is its own bubble, but the point stands. Certain ships/types of ships, depending on the character dynamics, how their written, etc, are going to appeal to one type of fan, while other ships are going to appeal to others.

Many times both sides will see chemistry in their ship and not in the others. They will proceed to have long arguments about how obvious the chemistry/lack of chemistry is as if it was something objective. This is how ship wars are started.

Yeah no that's a good point. Although I don't think my concern here is specific to shipping (more just character interactions in general), that probably applies equally as well either way.

I guess it's just frustrating for it to be a dynamic that so totally doesn't work for me. Ah well what can you do.

Yeah, he was constantly belittling her and she was constantly lying to him... I think I've officially given up on the Moffat era. Call me when there's a new showrunner.

I think for me it's more about actor chemistry then what is written in the text (though I don't ship them, I just enjoy them as a team.)

You really didn't miss much, the writing wasn't great but I personally really like Capaldi and Coleman and think they do a great job with what they're given. A more curmudgeon of a doctor is also a bit to my taste.

But I can tell you the text has not done a great job of it, it's basically established that Clara is kind of addicted to it and the Doctor is lonely so they stick together when really Clara probably should have left (and I say this as someone who likes Clara and wants her to stay, but the with the way the story went she really should have left and never turned back.)

So yeah, it's not that anything happened when you stopped watching, it's just on if you see it or not. Even though the writing wasn't great I still preferred Clara/12 to Clara/11, because while Clara/11 may have been a lot nicer to each other, it was not at all interesting to me and I saw no chemistry there (it also didn't help that Clara had no personality that series and all the episodes were forgettable.)

I don't mind a curmudgeonly doctor - I guess 12 just crosses the line from curmudgeon to actively unpleasant and awful for me. And I definitely love both Coleman and Capaldi as actors, and I think they'd have great chemistry as actors if they weren't playing out this dynamic. Oh well.

I did see interesting chemistry with 11 and Clara on screen actually (at least something more interesting than 12 and Clara) but I accept I'm apparently in a minority there.

I'm sure there are people who like 11/Clara as well, I just personally had trouble with it because Clara was more of a "mystery to solve" then a person to 11 and that really bothered me. I think we also needed more time with her in that series, giving half the series to Amy and Rory (who didn't need more time, especially since we really already had a goodbye episode with them) really hurt getting to know her as a character and seeing any potential chemistry between her and 11.

12 is just funny to me, IDK why but I even find him more likable then 11. The best reason I can explain why is because I can accept a character being a jackass when they are written that way and the text supports (and the writing has told us that 12 is not acting the way people in polite society do), but when a character is supposed to be somewhat likable and the writers want you to ignore them being a jackass is when I have an issue.

Re: jerkasses, I guess the thing is that to me the Doctor is still supposed to be somewhat likable on some level because he's the fucking Doctor. Even when he's making horrible choices and doing awful shit he's supposed to be somewhat likable. And second I do think the writing (at least in the episodes I actually saw) wants us to be on his side. It understands that a lot of his behavior is jerkish but it also seems to be quite sympathetic with him. He comes across as a bit of an ass but not really bad. Except that he is totally a fucking jerk who can't stop being a jerk. and I think the same is true or broadly true for Clara as well. Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

Re 11 yeah I don't know. The structural problems were definitely there but I really did love 11 conceptually especially towards the end of his run, and I thought Clara was able to interact with him in a neat way that was fairly unique for nu-who. But I think you have to really buy in to 11's whole thing for the second half of season 7 and it doesn't seem to really work for most people. I could probably write a million more words about why I love it but this is totally off topic and a million words already.

Maybe it's the change in Doctors? I mean if you loved Clara with Eleven, it's probably jarring to have such a dramatic dynamic switch between Clara and the Doctor post - regeneration.

I honestly don't think it is. I mean, I definitely acknowledge the possibility, but I feel like I'm able to recognize that there's going to be a different dynamic and deal with that, the same way as with any other companion. But I just don't see anything to like about the new dynamic. It's not just not as good as 11 and Clara's dynamic - it's not any good.

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[ SECRET POST #2923 ]

A serious question about Doctor Who season 8 from a hater

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Re: A serious question about Doctor Who season 8 from a hater

Re: A serious question about Doctor Who season 8 from a hater

Re: A serious question about Doctor Who season 8 from a hater

Re: A serious question about Doctor Who season 8 from a hater

Re: A serious question about Doctor Who season 8 from a hater

Re: A serious question about Doctor Who season 8 from a hater

Re: A serious question about Doctor Who season 8 from a hater

Re: A serious question about Doctor Who season 8 from a hater