[ SECRET POST #2927 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2927 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Log Horizon]


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03.
[Red Dwarf / Stargate Atlantis]


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04.
[Sleepy Hollow]


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05.
[Disney / Doctor Who]


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06.
[Cinderella 2015]


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07.
[Daria / NCIS]


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08.
[Benedict Cumberbatch]


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09.
[Boku no Hero Academia]



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10.
[community]


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11.
[Young Avengers]


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12.
[Game of Thrones]


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13.
[PSYCHO-PASS/Katekyo Hitman REBORN!]


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14.
[Dragon Age]












Notes:

Full evening, so really early post!

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 022 secrets from Secret Submission Post #418.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

jon was a child tho???? he wasnt responsible for his father's behaviour and it was incredibly immature and downright abusive for cat to take it out on him.

[kallanda_lee]

Sure, it's not nice but it's understandable on a human level, and that really is what you get when people end up in fucked-up situations.
See also: pretty much all the rest of Game of Thrones.

[othellia]

Also there's a huge difference between our current culture and the medieval one where GoT takes place.

Jon isn't just a step-child. He's a bastard step-child born of (as far as Cat knows) a tavern wench. So not only is it conscious decision vs dragging home a kid after you're married, it's actually conscious decision vs dragging home a kid after you're married who is ALSO a commoner who is ALSO a potential threat to the inheritance of your own children AKA the whole reason women were married off back then.

[(Anonymous)]

Absolutely. Modern-day arguments of "be nice to kids" don't face up to "this child is a huge risk to your own children and your all-powerful husband has already proven that he is happy to publicly shame you in favour of this kid" in the GoT world. Especially as bastards can be legitimised.

[(Anonymous)]

Catelyn worries about this in the first book. Even though Robb is older than Jon (and she has two other sons), Jon looks more like a Stark.

[kallanda_lee]

Exactly - plus, given the timing, it's basically a huge insult to her. Their wedding bed wouldn't even have been cold when he produced this child, and then he has the gall to bring it home to her.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Still doesn't make her nice. Understandable yes, but not nice.

Considering the "not as much of a jerk as you could have been" remains the standard for Westoros morality, the fact this surprises anybody or ties to get explained away astounds me.

Yeah, there have been some truly good characters. And then they die. Horribly in most cases.

[kallanda_lee]

I'd argue not even Ned was completely nice, though. He's morally sound, but that's not the same as nice.

[(Anonymous)]

"Good" isn't the same as "nice," though. "Morally sound" is much closer to "good" than it is to "nice." So what insanenoodlyguy said is still accurate.

[(Anonymous)]

He's still a human being.

Also I think you're strongly downplaying the extent to which bastards are presented as being common in noble circles in Westeros. It is not nearly as outside the norms as all that. Frankly Ned is weird for not cheating more.

[(Anonymous)]

Bastards being common, absolutely (Cat even says early on that the existence of a bastard child/children wouldn't have surprised her).

Bastards being brought back to the family home and raised alongside/as equal to the full-blooded heirs? Not so much.

[(Anonymous)]

And that sort of thing doesn't happen at all, ever, because we're all perfect and none of us ever react inappropriately or let things get to us in all the wrong ways and make us act in shitty ways we know we shouldn't?

[(Anonymous)]

Q: Thus, the question I have is if Catelyn went out of her way to mistreat Jon in the past -- and which form this might have taken -- or if she rather tried to avoid and ignore him?

A: "Mistreatment" is a loaded word. Did Catelyn beat Jon bloody? No. Did she distance herself from him? Yes. Did she verbally abuse and attack him? No. (The instance in Bran's bedroom was obviously a very special case). But I am sure she was very protective of the rights of her own children, and in that sense always drew the line sharply between bastard and trueborn where issues like seating on the high table for the king's visit were at issue. And Jon surely knew that she would have preferred to have him elsewhere.

Quote from GRRM. Even he says Cat wasn't all that bad to Jon.

[(Anonymous)]

... except that you're missing a whole bunch of subtleties, there. GRRM makes a point of saying she didn't physically or verbally abuse Jon, except in that one instance. What you missed is that raising a child in an environment where you make it very clear and they KNOW they're unwanted and someone less worthy than their half-siblings is a horrible thing to do to an innocent child.

But like you, most people don't see it as "abuse", particularly when it's of a bastard stepchild, which is why people in the novels don't view Cat as a bitch stepmother.