[ SECRET POST #2992 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2992 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Grand Theft Auto 5]


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03.
[Zipang]


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04.
[Ricky Gervais]


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05.
[Tokyo Babylon/X1999]


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06.
[Dexter]


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07.
[The Mentalist]


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08.
[The Truth - Terry Pratchett]


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09.
[It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia]


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10.
[Douglas Adams]


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11.
[Black Books]


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12.
[Lucky Star]


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13.
[Edward Petherbridge as Lord Peter Wimsey]


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14.
[Ga-In, Brown Eyed Girls]


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15.
[Oz the Great and Powerful]


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16.
[Colin Baker]


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17.
[9 Hours, 9 Persons, 9 Doors]


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18.
[Yatterman Night]


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19.
[Johnny the Homicidal Maniac]


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20.
[Blake's 7]


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21.
[Game Grumps]


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22.
[Alexis Denisof]







Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 07 pages, 170 secrets from Secret Submission Post #428.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Writing Thread

[(Anonymous)]

Questions, comments, you know the drill.

Question (in need of advice)

[(Anonymous)]

How can I write shorter stories?

I feel like I'm incapable of writing an actual story in under 30K (and most are considerably longer). I want my default length to be closer to 10K. I outline and I try to combine as many scenes as possible and am as ruthless as possible with cutting things to the bone (so I feel my stories move at a breakneck speed or can be choppy as a result).

Any suggestions?

Re: Question (in need of advice)

[ketita]

Maybe try to move your goalposts a bit? I once had a fic idea that seemed like a monster to me (two characters fall in love through letter-exchanges, one of them is a lawman and one a criminal. inspired by Catch Me If You Can), and I was trying to figure out how to make it /not/ be a gazillion-k fic, because I also have a tendency towards length.
So instead of starting at the beginning, I started at the end - from the very last letter one of them sends the other. That effectively cut down my fic by a lot, because a lot of what would have taken time turned into backstory instead of story-story.
So maybe try to reframe your stories so they "feel" shorter to you?

Re: Question (in need of advice)

[cenobitic_anchorite]

This is a good version of Vonnegut's advice, which is basically to start your story as close to the end as possible. Sometimes this can only be figured out in editing, where you end up writing more of the pre-history and then chop off whatever can just be inferred later on.

Anyway, his other bits of advice are here -

http://www.writingclasses.com/InformationPages/index.php/PageID/538

Vonnegut was always a good example of a writer that got it done as compact as possible; a lot of story in tight packages.

Re: Question (in need of advice)

[ketita]

Well if I hit on Kurt Vonnegut's advice there's got to be something to it!

This is a great link, thanks so much :)

Re: Question (in need of advice)

[(Anonymous)]

Perhaps try to see if you use a lot of adverbs or use long sentences with plenty of superfluous words. I tried the Hemingway Editor app* for one of my texts for fun and apparently I use quite a few long sentences that can easily be shorted and be more concise (though honestly I quite like long sentences). I think it shorted my (already fairly short) text quite a bit to remove all adverbs and edit the hard to read sentences.

*http://www.hemingwayapp.com/

Re: Question (in need of advice)

[philstar22]

I have the opposite problem. I'm really good at short stuff, but I can't seem to write longer stuff.

Re: Question (in need of advice)

[ketita]

Stick in more plot. If you have more plot, then you need to write more stuff to make it happen :P

lol I'm responding to you all over everything today

Re: Question (in need of advice)

[sarillia]

Are you trying to focus on too many characters or events? I sometimes end up following the ripple effect too far and the story gets bogged down. In shorter stories, I've found you can't try to cover too much and it's best to focus on just a few significant events.

Re: Question (in need of advice)

[(Anonymous)]

OP

I like writing first time romances and I think what trips me up is that I like the relationship to grow organically, which means they don't jump into bed but actually have to get to know each other and fall in love. That seems to take time.

Are there any shortcuts for that?

Re: Question (in need of advice)

[(Anonymous)]

There's two things that have helped me curb my tendency for epic-length stories.

1) I joined a writing community that has prompt-based drabble challenges. Having to condense an idea into such a small space is very challenging, but it has helped me reign in some of my wordy tendencies.

2) I saw earlier that you like to write slow-burn romances. Why not try writing what I think is called "curtainfic". Instead of trying to tell the entire story at once, break it up into vignettes. Like character "x" and character "y" go to the store type stuff. or "x" and "y" have a midnight deadline. They find out that morning and have to work together. Pick a moment. You don't have to write the beginning, middle, and end all the time. :)

Re: Question (in need of advice)

[(Anonymous)]

Well, first I'd ask if it was really necessary. What's your end result look like? Is it a good story with decent pacing? Does the plot flow well, with few unnecessary tangents or sub plots that don't add anything to the overall work? If it's a good story with good flow and pacing, then I'm not sure it "needs" to be shorter, per se.

But if you're worried about length because you're trying to follow a specific guideline, then maybe it's time to ask yourself if you're simply squeezing too much plot into one story. I had a friend like this. It wasn't enough for him to write an awesome story about a space cowboy wandering the galaxy in his ship with only a sentient octopus for a companion until he's called upon to rescue a dying planet, it just HAD TO BE a story about a whole army of space cowboys with sentient octopuses and bionic arms who were marooned from Planet Xenar, the descendants of a lost colony from Earth during the Cold War who were also secretly infiltrated by the Illuminati, and the dying planet they had to rescue was really the sole habitat for a species of exotic lily whose pollen was a cure for the disease that was killing the Queen of the Mole People, a legendary cosmic seer and prophetess who...

You get the idea. Not that the ideas weren't great, but he just could not cram all of that in and still get a coherent story at the end. But! He didn't want to leave ANY of it out, and refused to edit it enough to where she was left with a plot that still made sense. You can ruthlessly edit something and still fail to do a good editing job, unfortunately. It's not just cutting out words, it's knowing where to cut and how to reshape what's left.

I'll ask you this... how much 10K length fiction do you read? Because if you're not reading lots of short fiction, you're missing out on a good resource. See what other authors are doing to keep their stories that length and still tell a good story.

Writing Question

[philstar22]

Okay, so, how do you set the scene/give a lot of characterization without having large paragraphs of prose? I haven't yet figured out a good way to get those two things into dialogue. My writing tens to be very prosy, which works well for PWPs but doesn't translate well for other things.

Re: Writing Question

[(Anonymous)]

Hmm, could you give an example of what you're talking about?

Characterization comes through dialogue with the words the characters are choosing and how they respond to the conversation so I'm not sure what kind of characterization you're aiming for.

If you want to avoid long paragraphs, you can break up the information. Like, the person comes into a room and it's dark. Then while he's talking to the person in the room, he picks up objects in the room or walks closer to something or he has trouble seeing the person's expression because it's dark. Elements of the scene are introduced as they affect the character.

Is that the kind of thing you're looking for or did you mean something else?

Re: Writing Question

[philstar22]

No, that's helpful. I'm just not good with dialogue. But that breaking up the information thing is actually super helpful.

Re: Writing Question

[sarillia]

Dialogue and the body language that goes along with it are some of my favorite parts of writing! Studying body language might be a good place to start, and different styles of speaking. Those things can give a lot of insight into a character.

Constantly interrupting people and talking over them could be a sign of arrogance or impatience and then the way other people react to that will say something about them, whether they lose their temper and snap at them or quietly let them say what they want to say. Someone who is feeling uncomfortable could be fidgeting a lot, playing with bits of their clothes or their hair, or always moving around to sit in a new position. Actually that moving around thing could also be a sign of some kind of disability (among many other things obviously); that's something I do because I get to a point where my joints are complaining about staying in that position and I need to find a way to arrange them that they're not sick of already. A dreamy sort of person could get lost in thought a lot and trail off at the end of sentences. Or trailing off like that can be a sign of insecurity because they're not at all confident in what they're saying. Someone who thinks they're smarter than they really are might try to use big words but use them wrong. Some people might be really talkative around their close friends but other people can hardly get a word out of them. There's posture too; do they sit very prim and proper or splay all over? That could help with the setting too, because maybe they're in a really nice place and one of them is afraid to touch anything and is sitting on the edge of the seat trying to disturb it as little as possible.

I'll shut up now. And obviously going on about any of this too much is a problem, but I love little touches like that.

Re: Writing Question

[cenobitic_anchorite]

I try to make the characters interact with the environment as much as they do each other. Instead of just dialogue full of only 'he said, she said,' the dialogue tags become activities instead that rely on or show bits of detail around the scene.

There's no problem with the occasional prose portions, although what I notice can sometimes happen if you don't want for it is it becomes like a sort of scriptwriting - a few paragraphs of place-setting and then the characters just float in it without actually interacting with anything. Are they in an office? Outline the office, then have them play with pens or folders, describe the couch just a little as they lay in it. Let the characters notice and toy with things.

Beyond that, I don't know that I have good answers, either. I just embrace the prose and try to blend character shit in there, too.

Re: Writing Question

[(Anonymous)]

I'm still getting the hang of this myself...

Rather than having a big block of environment and then sparse bits of dialogue, have characters interact with the environment during their dialogue. Or use the environment to reinforce the dialogue. Eg. if the characters are talking about spaceships, you can then describe the spaceships.

Dialogue can be used to establish character. Particularly word choice and style of talking can give you a lot to work with. It can be used to communicate the character's background, age, gender, and status, as well as their opinions and perspective. Body language is super useful!

Feed the description to the reader slowly in bits and pieces. Sort of like making a pencil sketch of the character, then you add a bit more detail, and then as the story goes along you get to know the character as a complete picture.

Also, not all description is bad. But I think the best description is concise. Try cutting an idea or concept from your paragraph of description. Find the best sentence and stick with that. Sometimes large paragraphs of prose are just necessary.

I also have very prosy dialogue, so... good luck!

Re: Writing Thread

[solticisekf]

I want to write fics with much drama but as soon as things get dangerous I feel sorry for the characters. Can't write them suffering. All I write is fluff, crack and kittens. My beta included bits where a character feels pain because it's realistic and I'm like: "poor char!".

tl;dr Any thoughts on inflicting angst on your characters?

Re: Writing Thread

[ketita]

Think about it not as inflicting angst on the characters but on the readers. Ultimately angst is for the readers to enjoy. You can write something angsty which is more painful for the readers than the characters, too - by having the readers know something the characters don't, for example, which makes it worse.
And then at the end, give them a happy ending. Make it all work out, so while you're writing the awful middle you know it'll all be okay.
Maybe something like that will work?

Re: Writing Thread

[solticisekf]

Huh, angst is certainly intended for readers. I gotta try writing with this mindset. Thanks!

Re: Writing Thread

[(Anonymous)]

I'm in the same boat. Once I start doing bad stuff to characters that I adore, I want to cry. D: Or sometimes I do.

Re: Writing Thread

[solticisekf]

Writing fic is not always easy. -/
It's said that crying releases some hormones and is actually quite good health wise. )

Re: Writing Thread

[(Anonymous)]

I'm writing a longer story that involves both pov changes and flashbacks. I've read stories that use these techniques well but am aware that it can also be horrendous.

So far it seems a little clunky. Anyone got any advice on doing this well? (There is no other way to tell the story I want to tell.)

Re: Writing Thread

[(Anonymous)]

When it comes to POV changes, make sure they're still self-contained scenes, i.e. don't switch until a specific scene has some closure. Don't headhop, basically. Choose the scene you need to tell from that chara's POV and stick to it until that scene comes to an end or there's a natural switch point. If you find you can't tell the story you want to tell that way, then considering whether you're using the right POV chara for that scene in the first place or whether a different POV would be more effective and require less back-and-forth switching. Some writers switch on a chapter-by-chapter basis, so there's that too.

Flashbacks can be tricky things because some people just find them jarring anyway, however well they're done. Are you writing separate scenes/chapters set in the flashback, or are the flashbacks interrupting scenes in the present? The former is usually easier to deal with, but in general whatever most clearly differentiates it from the present time of the story is your best bet.