Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2015-03-15 03:45 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2015-03-15 03:45 pm
[ SECRET POST #2993 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2993 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 123 secrets from Secret Submission Post #428.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 - pretty sure these are all the same spammer anon trying to win the non-existent "weirdest fandomsecret/sex fantasy" award. There are more I missed, and some that went up yesterday. If one of these is not the same anon, please PM me ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-03-15 11:43 pm (UTC)(link)Also I obviously know that people can have hard lives despite their privileges, but that is not the point. I comment I replied to, stated that there are certain things men have to endure in exchange for having privilege and that (most) feminists are not willing to endure those things, which doesn't make sense at all.
First of all, as I stated above, can not think of a single thing that affects men in general (i.e. isn't personalized tragedy), that has to do with sexism, that women are refusing to bear. Secondly it doesn't make sense because feminism isn't some movement of women trying to become oppressors over men. The idea is to gain equality. Which is by the way something men would profit from.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-03-16 12:28 am (UTC)(link)I'm going to assume you're arguing in good faith here, so if it turns out you're trolling, then congratulations, you got me. But I think you genuinely do want all people treated decently, and you're interested in using the best available sociological tools to analyze and solve the relevant problems.
First off, I completely agree with you that equality would benefit men as well as women. The thing is, if gendered oppression and injustice were entirely unidirectional, men as oppressors and women as oppressed, then that wouldn't be true. You can't just say "The patriarchy hurts men too" and then act as though men aren't hurt by the patriarchy.
Men die younger than women for a lot of preventable reasons, mostly violence and suicide. To be male is to be an acceptable target for violence in our society, and that is not okay, I think we can agree. Men are at much higher risk of being the victim of violent crime, and VASTLY higher risk of suicide. Does this come from societal stereotypes and teaching about machismo and proper male roles? Partly, yes. That means what we have here is a societal sexism problem that is STRAIGHT-UP KILLING PEOPLE, so let's not pretend it doesn't exist because the dead people have dicks.
The gender gap in higher education favors women and continues to widen. Does that relate to media stereotypes about men being stupid, horny brutes? Maybe; certainly that's something we should be able to have a conversation about, not just dismiss it as irrelevant.
Rape of men remains a punchline in both media and in general civic discourse, and while some feminists have quite rightly decried that tendency as evil, you still can't bring up the issue in feminist spaces without some folks saying "Men being raped is incredibly rare and I refuse to care about it", in flat defiance of the facts. That gives a lot of people the impression that feminists aren't serious about the equality thing.
Right here in this community a few days ago, someone mentioned that men can suffer from very nasty body-image issues fed by media images, and at least one person was angrily insisting that nothing would ever make her care about teh poor menz and their fee-fees. This is not a made-up problem.
I don't think there's any extra shit that I've had to deal with because I'm white, that I wouldn't have had to deal with if I were, say, Latino. That axis of oppression really is unidirectional. But is there shit I've had to deal with because I'm male that I wouldn't have had to deal with if I were female? Yes. There is. I'm not some asshole MRA claiming that women have all the advantages and men are brutally oppressed; I understand that there'd be reams of shit I'd have to deal with if I were a woman that I currently don't have to. Which doesn't make all the existing microaggressions and stereotypes and pain somehow GO AWAY, any more than "Women have it worse in Saudi Arabia" somehow invalidates Western women's problems.
So yeah, feminism is the right tool to pursue gender equality, which is good because we're all trapped in a fucked-up gender system that hurts everyone. But it doesn't help when folks want to act like half the problem doesn't exist, or is worthy only of sneering contempt.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-03-16 12:31 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-03-16 12:53 am (UTC)(link)no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-03-16 12:53 am (UTC)(link)I think my second comment was really badly worded. I am aware of how the partriarchy damages men and I do think that those things you mentioned are worth fighting against. I think most of the disadvataged men have, are still directly linked to misogyny though. So I guess I see the issue as more unidirectional than you. But that doesn't mean I think we shouldn't try to fight these problems.
The thing is, though, that most of these problems for men exist, because of gendersterotypes (e.g. men getting raped is a joke, because ~real men are strong). My problem with the first comment wasn't that it mentioned how men are negatively affected by the partriarchy (they are and we should work against it). My issue is that it stated most feminists "want all the privilege but want to do none of the work". Which implies there is some work men do, that makes them inherently deserving of that privilege and also ignored the fact that the people that are actually trying to abolish genderroles (and therefore most of the problems men face because of sexism) are (mostly) feminists.
My comments were badly worded though and for that I apologize. I am just really tired of the idea that women somehow have to earn equality, which is total bullshit. Anyway, thanks for you reply.