[ SECRET POST #3002 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3002 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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03.


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04.


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05.
[Transformers: More than Meets the Eye/Transformers: Robots in Disguise]


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06.


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10.
[Gary Barlow, Take That]


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11.
[Sherlock Holmes]


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14.
[Criminal Minds/Law and Order: SVU]


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15.
[Gekkan shoujo Nozaki-kun]


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16.
[Buffy the Vampire Slayer (episode: Prom Night)]


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17.
[Breaking Bad]


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18.
[Night Shift]


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19.
[Neil Patrick Harris, Stephen Fry, Neil Gaiman, Stephen Colbert]


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20.
[clockwise from bottom left: Dinosaur Comics, Romantically Apocalyptic, Homestuck, Nedroid, Sfeer Theory, Bite Me!]


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21.
[Dragon Age]









Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 066 secrets from Secret Submission Post #429.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. http://i59.tinypic.com/2yki49v.jpg

Transcript by OP

[fscom]

Image: A book with a knife hidden inside

Text: I'd take five "you can tell who the murderer is a hundred pages in"-non-reveals over another "it's the one you least expect"-twist any day.

Re: Transcript by OP

[anonymous4]

They're both valid templates for a mystery -- in the first case, especially when the reader can see whodunnit but the characters can't, and even more especially when the reader can see all of the clues but each character can only see some of the clues, and something stops them sharing...

ETA Whoops, wrong place!

[(Anonymous)]

Do you mind me asking why, OP?

[manzana]

Too much of one trick does ruin it, if that's where you're coming from.

[praetorian_guard]

I think a lot of the times the 'one you least expect' trope is used for pure shock value, and it doesn't have a good build up throughout the novel. I'll take either, though I do like trying to figure things out, but yeah - it does get boring when the author doesn't set it up properly.

[(Anonymous)]

I think a lot of mystery readers prefer "fair play" to "random twist." It's fun to figure it out.

[(Anonymous)]

Well put.

Random twist endings can feel like a cop out or arrogance.

[(Anonymous)]

In my experience, these two things overlap a lot of the time. In an effort to be "the one they least expect" and vague and clever, it's painfully obvious far earlier than a hundred pages in.

(The Girl on The Train is the most recent example I can think of.)

[(Anonymous)]

Preach it, sister. I am so sick of people trying to be clever with hidden twists, mostly because they are incapable of actually successfully pulling off a hidden twist. Everyone thinks they are the rare exception that can get away with it though.

What is wrong with a simple story, well told? Seriously, when everything is a subversion or aversion of a trope, then nothing is.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, it's so common these days that the latter's sort of BECOME the former anyway, so I definitely agree.

[ibbity]

My favorite is the case where there's a SHOCKING REVEAL! at the end, but then when you read it over again you see all the little clues and places where the SHOCKING REVEAL! is hinted at and foreshadowed that you missed the first time through, but that would have totally given away the SHOCKING REVEAL! if you'd paid more attention.

[(Anonymous)]

That's when it's actually done well. I love re-reading on those occasions with the added pleasure and benefit of hindsight.

[feotakahari]

That's where The Law of Conservation of Detail meets the gargoyle problem from Dungeons and Dragons.

The analogy goes like so: you're playing D&D, and the DM mentions a statue. The first time he does so, you'll be surprised that the statue comes to life and attacks you. The second time, you'll be wary, so you'll be ready when it attacks you. The third time, you'll realize that the DM only mentions statues when they're going to attack you. With a sufficiently uncreative DM, this can be extended so far as only mentioning the time of day when you're about to be attacked by sun-phobic vampires.

There's a lot of push towards "lean" writing these days, not spending time building background and giving details. Thus, when the author gives you a detail that seems completely innocuous, it's obviously there as a hint to a future reveal. Note down all the times the author mentions details that don't need to be mentioned, and you've got your twist straight away.

[vethica]

It's not a murder, but the first episode of Baccano! gives away everything that happens in the entire show, and somehow does it in a way that doesn't ruin anything. Forever impressed at how they pulled that one off.

[(Anonymous)]

I assume you've read and enjoyed Dorothy Sayers, OP?

Also, if you dig on TV, Columbo is the best show.

[(Anonymous)]

Not OP but <3 Columbo

Really, <3 all 70s mystery shows, and also Murder She Wrote

completely my jam

[(Anonymous)]

Also not the OP, but Columbo is so great. <3

And Dorothy Sayers wrote one of my favorite "mysteries" in which the killer's identity is telegraphed on Page 10.

[(Anonymous)]

A murder mystery secret! Yay! (I didn't even have to make it myself!)

I think the key to a successful "one you least expect" twist is that it has to lay down enough clues to seem plausible in retrospect. But I like both kinds.

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, it depends whether the 'least expected' makes sense or not. I love The Murder of Roger Ackroyd for example. Murder mysteries are best when they make me feel stupid imo, not frustrated.

[(Anonymous)]

The Murder of Roger Ackroyd is so, so good! I was spoiled for the ending before I read it, and it just made me more impressed with how well it worked.

[(Anonymous)]

It can be annoying when it's badly done. I think some writers assume that because everyone is so familiar with the usual 'twist' tropes the only way to surprise them is to have no hints at all, and then it makes no sense.

[caerbannog]

Normally is agree except I can't get past either versions of Mist. Talk about a twist...

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, read for what you want to read for. If that does it for you, cool.

Is this some sort of unpopular opinion? Most of the mysteries I've been recced lately have been pretty obvious, but I'm not heavily into that sort of book, so maybe it's different when you get beyond the surface few.

[(Anonymous)]

I think sometimes it can be too much like a Deus Ex Machina. It really only works if there are clues during the story. If they are just thrown in as a shock ending, then it's a bit dull