Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2015-04-07 06:34 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2015-04-07 06:34 pm
[ SECRET POST #3016 ]
⌈ Secret Post #3016 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 084 secrets from Secret Submission Post #431.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-08 12:42 pm (UTC)(link)that would just make it easier for YOU and the other spirk fans to write out their relationship as her taking advantage of him, an argument that the slash fans use already no matter the evidence that she's his girlfriend and that he welcomed her tenderness and comfort because he was already familiar with her.
Knowing this fandom, of course you hate he got with her before vulcan is destroyed because you can't say they got together just because he was emotionally compromised. The writers make it harder for you because you have to reconcile, instead, with the fact that he got with her because it was his choice and not because he needed her in a bad moment. You can't accept the fact that he could find love in a person who is not Kirk and who made him able to put aside his control. You don't like that she is that person who, no matter how complicate or difficult, apparently made him decide he wanted to try to be in a relationship because he couldn't help it. Perhaps, the fact that he was with her already is the point and important to his arc, but you are too focused on who he loves to even get it.
If Spock had that kind of relationship with Kirk you all would be gloating about how perfect and touching your ship is the same way you now use him crying for kirk and not his mom as proof that he loves him (even more than his mother) no matter how OOC that scene is both for the character and the way k/s is developed. You don't need any written explanation to that relationship but you demand that the other fans explain to you why they ship what they ship and why your opinion is everything but 'objective'.
You would never like spock/uhura regardless.
I think you should get over yourself and reconcile with your own obvious bias.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-08 12:52 pm (UTC)(link)Are you shitting me?
Holy shit do you have a persecution complex.
The issue isn't with UHURA. It's with Spock. SHE didn't do anything wrong there. The problem is that SPOCK shouldn't have a significant other in the first place. A man that can't tell his mother he loves her is not capable of revealing his feelings for a student. You need to EXPLAIN HOW that happened because a HUGE part of Spock's character is his emotional repression.
If you throw that out, then he's not SPOCK.
Where have I said that UHURA did anything wrong?
"If Spock had that kind of relationship with Kirk you all would be gloating about how perfect and touching your ship is the same way you now use him crying for kirk and not his mom as proof that he loves him (even more than his mother)"
I have literally NEVER seen anyone say that Spock loves Kirk more than his mother. Ever. And even if they did it would be nonsensical since the circumstances of their deaths were so different.
"If Spock had that kind of relationship with Kirk you all would be gloating about how perfect and touching your ship is "
Not really. I would feel fucking cheated that we never got to see them FALL IN LOVE. Because that's what you need to address when it comes to a romance with Spock.
"You would never like spock/uhura regardless." Funny because I've read quite a few good Spock/Uhura fics and I quite enjoy it some of the McKirk fics I've read as well (where it's a common side pairing).
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-08 01:11 pm (UTC)(link)Say who? You?
This is a Spock from a different reality who was an instructor at the academy in a moment and time when Tos Spock was elsewhere making different experiences anbd meeting diufferent people. Who are you to even know the millions of casualities that made a relationship possible in this reality?
You don't even know if tos Spock ever had a relationship (according to Nimoy, for Roddenberry he did date when he was younger) you don't know what is in character for him when it comes to falling in love because they never developed this aspect with tos Spock.
Vulcans do fall in love too, just because you never saw this vulcan in a relationship before it doesn't mean he's incapable of having one, that was never said or proved.
All the more crazy is your belief he must be like tos Spock even in another reality whose main purpose IS making the characters different.
You guys are having this argument since 2009 aren't you a bit tired by it too? They had been a couple for two movies, all the comics and the videogame and you are still here having a nervous breakdown over this fictional pair, you still can't accept it.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-08 01:22 pm (UTC)(link)YES. BECAUSE IT CONTRADICTS TOS.
You're allowed to contradict TOS but there needs to be an explanation for SUCH a radical change.
Spock also went to the Academy in TOS -- he and his father had an over 10 year falling out about it over Spock going to Starfleet instead of the VSA. Just like in the reboots. It's the EXACT SAME.
The man can't tell his mother that he loved her. After being dosed with spores in TOS, he says it was the FIRST TIME he was really ever happy. These are literally his words:
"I have little to say about it, Captain, except that for the first time in my life I was happy."
So PLEASE don't pretend to me that Spock had a "relationship" -- if the first time he was truly happy was after the spores then whatever he experienced before could not have been truly loving/accepting.
Vulcans can fall in love. WHERE HAVE I DENIED THIS? But Spock -- because he was discriminated against so badly -- has NEVER felt comfortable expressing it. He's ASHAMED. He's ashamed of Friendship. HE CAN'T TELL HIS MOTHER HE LOVES HER.
How do you expect me to believe that he would feel comfortable being in a relationship with a student?
What they could have done, instead, was to show Spock IN LOVE with Uhura prior to Vulcan's destruction but too repressed to act. And then choosing to act on his feelings after talking with his father once his mother passed. THAT WOULD HAVE MADE SO MUCH SENSE.
But as it's written, it's completely unbelievable.
TOS Spock might be in a different reality BUT he has the same genetics as Reboot Spock. And every experience we are shown of reboot Spock prior to Vulcan's destruction EXACTLY MATCHES stuff we know about TOS Spock's childhood. So if you're going to throw out a huge part of Spock's character -- his emotional repression -- you NEED to address it because otherwise it's just OOC.
Why in the world do you think I'm having a nervous breakdown over it? I think they're a cute pair. And they definitely could work. But in the hands of better writers.
As written, it's unbelievably and OOC. Just like a bunch of stuff in the reboots (such as Kirk insulting Spock's Vulcan heritage when, in TOS, he said there would be no bigotry on the bridge -- once again, OOC with no explanation).
no subject
(Anonymous) 2015-04-08 02:13 pm (UTC)(link)Spock also went to the Academy in TOS -- he and his father had an over 10 year falling out about it over Spock going to Starfleet instead of the VSA. Just like in the reboots. It's the EXACT SAME.
you don't seem to get the whole concept of alternate reality and butterfly effect, don't you? How it can be exactly the same? For the little we know, it's NOT.
Yes, he went to the academy in TOS too but was that choice made for the same exact reason and in the same exact moment? We don't know. He didn't talk with his father for more than 10 years in tos, but we don't know if it was the same in this reality too, maybe here he kept a relationship with his parents. In the movie nothing seems to suggest that him and Sarek were not in good terms.
You also missed the fact that in the tos universe Spock had been working on Pike's enterprise for 10 years before he became Kirk's first officer. Uhura was still graduating at the time, they probably never met each other in tos if not years later when Uhura joined enterprise round 2 and became Kirk's communication officer. You don't know what exactly happened to tos Spock that made him want to be more vulcan than vulcans either. Was that ever explained to you? Did the writers give you his whole backstory before the enterprise?
There are obviously some things that make the characters similar to their counterparts but 'some' doesn't make them identical and even those similar events might have gone a bit differently for whatever reason and coincidence in an universe that was irremediably changed by Nero's incursion.
Least but not least, in one of the tos novels written by D. C. Fontana (she was one of the tos writers) Spock's coldness in the series is explained as him having a bad experience with love when he was younger (he fell for someone when he was working with Pike and that girl died) and Nichelle Nichols said that Roddenberry wanted a Spock/Uhura relationship but he couldn't develop it because she was a black woman. Point is, even for the old writers Spock having a significant other wasn't unconceivable.
Essentially, you are reaching and griping for reasons which only you can discern.
no subject
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What gets me is they keep saying SPOCK is in the wrong, but we all know it's because how dare a woman put her disgusting fingers on our pwecious babu Vulcan, KIRK SAVE HIM.
+1
no lie was detected
I too think that's the real reason why they would prefer them getting together after the vulcan diaspora
& them being an item before that makes their relationship more solid, IMO