fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3035 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3035 ⌋

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I never even considered that people were taking living by the book as the defining characteristic of being of a particular religion. That seems weird to me considering how recent the advent of mass-produced books is and how many religions in world history have never had books like the bible or the quran.

To me, if you believe in the god(s) that are central to the religion, then you are of that religion. Or if it's a religion/belief system with no gods, then it's based on the central tenants and not the smaller details that have led to arguments and schisms throughout history.

What about different translations of the bible? Two people end up taking different instructions from the same text. Which one is the Real Christian? I'm guessing in this view, they're both Christians since they're both trying to follow the rules? But then what about other kinds of different interpretations that look at the text metaphorically or take context into account in a way that other people don't? Does that still count as following the rules? Because that's what a lot of the people who are accused of picking and choosing are doing. I'm assuming some of them are Real Christians and some of them are not.

I've made peace with people thinking I'm not a Real Christian and I readily admit to picking and choosing (I care most about the things that are attributed to Jesus directly), but I really would like to understand the atheists who insist on telling me I'm not a Christian.

You're American, right? I can tell you for sure that a whole lot of countries out there like to take the Quran at its word and a whole lot of horrible shit has happened because of it.

I'm not sure how to address this argument because you're arguing from a very narrow Christian perspective against a stance that's anti-theist which is more broad. I'll ask the anti-theist people I know if I remember to.

I'm sorry, but I have no idea how this is a response to what I said. I thought we were talking about whether the definition of being a member of a religion was based on its holy books or something else. Where did the consequences of basing it on the books come into this?

You were asking about how to define what the holy books mean and so on, I don't have an answer to that. I was pointing out that a lot of countries seem to have figured the answer out though because lots of them have religion-based law or law heavily influenced by the literal word of their respective holy book.

I can't give you the answer to how they did it, but it's provably not an impossible feat.

Oh okay. I don't know how they came to their conclusions either. I'd have the same arguments about various interpretations with them as I do with fundamentalist Christians and atheists.

Same anon.

I'm reasonably confident though that there's a difference between an individual identifying and whole groups or countries identifying. You identifying as a Christian but not following the book to the letter doesn't hurt anyone as far as I know. Usually the people that get this argument tossed at them are the groups already claiming to be the True Whatevers of God and using the letter of the holy book to oppress others while ignoring what they want so it's more retaliatory than aggressive.

Usually the people that get this argument tossed at them are the groups already claiming to be the True Whatevers of God and using the letter of the holy book to oppress others while ignoring what they want so it's more retaliatory than aggressive.

But - not to disagree or anything - but there are people who are using the argument against the moral liberal and progressive members of the religion. Not the fundamentalist hardliners.

For instance, that's the argument dethtoll was making

so I'm not sure how far that goes.

AYRT

He wasn't until someone asked him about it IIRC, plus this thread is already on the topic of anti-theism so that's a bit of a biased judgment. Usually the liberal members don't do anything to warrant people being defensive so it doesn't come up at all. This is all in my experience though so YMMV I suppose.

I don't know, I've had this argument told to me way more often since I stopped being a fundie. Although even back then I kept telling my brother and other people to stop saying Catholics aren't Christian because that's for Jesus to decide.

Are you counting this case as an instance of it being told to you? Because I wasn't, if that's the case. I'm just saying how other people believe it.

It really doesn't matter at all to me whether you're Christian or a real Christian or not, whatever being a Real Christian means to you or someone else. I'm really the wrong person to ask for a definition, all I know is that other people have one.

No I'm not. And I'm okay with it even when it actually is a case of someone targeting it at me specifically. I'm just saying that it's something that I've come across a lot even though I'm not the type that claims to be the One True Kind of Christian.

FWIW I've tried asking the Christians who claim to be the One True Kind to explain why their interpretation is the right one out of all of them, and mostly all I get is "it is what it is, my God must be different from their 'God' and I know mine is True and Right" so... :\

I know how to speak their language and I still can't get any answers out of them on this. I know it can be frustrating.

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