fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3047 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3047 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Suzanne from Orange is the New Black]

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[Soul Caliber V]

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(Rick and Morty)

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[Love The Way You Lie - Eminem feat. Rihanna]

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[Bones]

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11. [SPOILERS for Grimm]
[WARNING for rape]

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12. [WARNING for rape]

[Eddie Murphy, Bill Cosby]

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13. [WARNING for incest/underage]

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #435.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

He had Black Widow, a female character who's never shown any signs of wanting children, call herself a monster because she can't have any. It doesn't make him a Totally Evil Sexist, but it's pretty icky any way you slice it.

No. She didn't say she was a monster because she couldn't have children.

She was a monster because she was raised to be a killing machine. So much so, that she was sterilized. She only mentioned being sterilized to empathize with Bruce who will also never be able to have children.

Mmmmm, I agree that there are a few potential readings of the line, and yours is one of them. But I don't think it's the only reading, and I think the connection between sterility and monstrosity was made uncomfortably direct. Why did Whedon choose the ability to bear children, of all things, for Bruce and Natasha to latch onto to describe themselves as monsters? Why, for the love of God, is sterilization necessary to turn a woman into a killing machine?

Unforgivably sexist? Well, not necessarily. Irresponsibly problematic writing? Yeah, I think so.

It's also worth considering how that line might well read to people who ARE in the position Natasha was describing as making her a monster. I've heard a few sterile women expressing a LOT of discomfort with the line, and I'd imagine that's a feeling shared by other people who can't, for whatever reason, have children.

Nooooo. The killing innocent people was what made them monsters.

The only reason Natasha mentioned being sterilized was because BRUCE questioned why she would want to be in a relationship with him because HE can never have children.

She was trying to tell him that, "Hey, if you think killing people makes you a monster, than so am I." And "You not being able to have kids doesn't make you any less worthwhile to love. I can't have children either but you still care about me."

>Why did Whedon choose the ability to bear children, of all things, for Bruce and Natasha to latch onto to describe themselves as monsters?

Because children/legacy was his subtheme of the movie, albeit clumsily done.

Tony fathers Ultron father Vision.

Ultron sees children as "replacements"

Clint had hidden children;

Natasha and Bruce can't have them.

Steve decides that's maybe no longer what he wants.

I too think it was a strange thing to focus on.

I'm not in any Marvel fandom, not invested in any of the movies or franchises, didn't pay attention to any hype etc. before the movie, and had no idea until several days after I'd watched it that this was an issue.

I still interpreted that line as needlessly linking 'sterile woman' with 'monster'.

Whether it was clumsy writing or not, the fact is that a lot of people took it that way. As yet another female character who's suddenly defining her worth by her ability to procreate.

Bruce stated that he was a monster because he destroyed shit and killed people when he was in hulk rage mode.

Natasha: "I'm a monster too. I was sterilized". Not word for word, but pretty close.

I just think the wording, phrasing of it could have been better.

The killing innocent people was what made them monsters.

The only reason Natasha mentioned being sterilized was because BRUCE questioned why she would want to be in a relationship with him because HE can never have children.

She was trying to tell him that, "Hey, if you think killing people makes you a monster, than so am I." And "You not being able to have kids doesn't make you any less worthwhile to love. I can't have children either but you still care about me."

Man I hate it when people copy paste like this. We can all read the whole thread, and the art eas agreeing with you.

No, he didn't. Jesus. People who say this are completely ignoring the entire scene but that one little part.

Look, she was talking about the lengths she went through in the Soviet program in order to become a spy/assassin. The final tests were that she had to kill someone and then become sterilized. To become a weapon that could only takes lives and not give them. To also not be able distracted by anything else but the mission. Like being distracted by a family. It wasn't, "Boo hoo, I can't have children." It was, "I was willing to do anything, to go through anything for the mission. That's why I am monster. I am an efficient weapon."

Honest to God, I have never seen a movie be so misinterpreted like this one. It's like people are willing to go at grand canyon lengths to find a reason to hate Whedon.

If you want a reason to hate this movie how about hating it for it is, just one long, weak set up for The Civil War. It was less of an Avengers movie and more like a prologue for the third wave of Marvel movies.

[ SECRET POST #3047 ]

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