[ SECRET POST #3070 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3070 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 072 secrets from Secret Submission Post #439.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

My problem with this line of argument is that I don't see how depicting a minority character as a non-minority takes away that representation. It seems to me that the representation is still there whatever happens in fan works.

I mean, I don't have much interest in seeing POC-as-white interpretations, or gay characters turned straight, or any of that, because it seems really fucking boring. But I have a hard time figuring out how it's inherently problematic.

[(Anonymous)]

Turning gay characters straight is the ultimate turnoff for me, because it reminds me of the awful history of people attempting to "correct" queerness.

[(Anonymous)]

That's obviously fair, as an individual reaction to something, but I don't think it's necessarily what the writer is actually doing and, again, I find it hard to see it being inherently problematic for that reason.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't actually think that's what they mean to do either (well, at least I hope not), but then again the case people make against whitewashing/straightification isn't usually about intentional malice, but the unintentional contribution to the erasure of minority groups? So they're not active bigots but not exactly helping to fix representation issues either... and as a bonus their artwork also incites reactions of distaste in people due to gross associations (intentional or otherwise). That explains why not a of people want that stuff around.

[(Anonymous)]

There is a difference between "He's gay? I must not have gotten that far." and "THAT IS THE ULTIMATE SIN!"

I mean one is the best reason to insablock someone.

[(Anonymous)]

I can give a pass when the person honestly has no idea, as would most people, but I don't think that's the situation we were talking about.

[(Anonymous)]

DA, but I don't think it's bad even if they do know, provided it's just a matter of writing/drawing them straight for fanwork purposes. I mean, you'll get fics and art of characters who've never interacted in canon, living characters getting with dead characters, humans with sapient animals and aliens etc. Then there are all sorts of stories where a character is written as abusive, a rapist, or even a serial killer. It seems a bit daft to draw the line at a canon gay character falling in love with someone of the opposite gender.

It's gross if they try to claim the character is actually straight in canon, but fanwork is just fanwork.

[(Anonymous)]

Daft or not, it's a turnoff for me. Can't say I'd be happy to see fanwork about a character I like being an abuser, a rapist, or a serial killer either. Would anyone? Unless canon supports such portrayals, I think interest in them are kinda niche.

[(Anonymous)]

A turnoff? That's fine, same here. I thought you were suggesting it's inherently wrong or problematic.

[otakugal15]

Man, I've liked only ONE pairing in all my years of fandom where a gay guy ended up falling for a girl (this is in fanfiction, obviously. the character in question was undeniably gay in the source material and i wouldn't have him any other way). But I liked the dynamic between these two characters that, if things had been different and she aged up (though honestly, the next time we see this character any where near her, she was in college and marrying her sweetheart), I think it'd work out, in a wish fulfillment kind of way.

But I have yet to find another one that clicked that way for me. They usually come off as platonic.

[rivia]

Yeah, i'll admit I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that, like, some people have been making mods like for games, turning PoC into "more pretty" white characters or for a specific example, the turning Dorian Pavus from DAI straight mods. On one hand I would never want those mods myself nor do I really see the need for them, but... it's someone else's game they paid for and it's not like installing it on your computer changes how it works for anyone else.

Though I do see that when there's "treatment camps" things to turn gay people straight or bleaching products for dark skin why people would strongly object to those mods.

[(Anonymous)]

The only Dorian mod I know of makes him bi. Not straight though.

[(Anonymous)]

But the mods and conversion therapy aren't even in the same sphere of existence.

Okay... I think it's incredibly important that Dorian is a canonically gay male character and he's hugely popular and actually written like a real human being. That's wonderful and I love him for it.

But absolutely no one is harmed if someone writes a fanfic where he falls for a girl. No one is hurt if they get his skin tone wrong in a piece of fanart. His portrayal in fan works does not touch his impact as a mainstream gay male character in a hugely popular video game.

Fanworks are supposed to be about expressing yourself. I see literally no difference between someone taking a canonically straight character and making them bi or gay and someone taking a canonically gay character and making them bi or straight. The conversion harms no one in either direction.

[otakugal15]

Oh my god a sensible argument out of this topic? I love you!!

[(Anonymous)]

This. I'm gay and even I have a couple of ships involving a canonically gay character and a straight character. If I think characters have good chemistry together, I'll probably ship it; it doesn't mean I think it would be a good idea for it to happen in canon. I also find the idea of comparing dumb, trivial fandom stuff to fucking conversion therapy really offensive tbh. Get a goddamn grip, people.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

It's true that obviously the actual representation remains in canon, and no fanwork can change that.

I think the issue gets muddied when - as you can see from all the discussions below re: headcanons, and any other thread we've had on F!S lately about headcanons in general - significant portions of fandom give more weight and validity to fanon. For a lot of people, fanon and fandom interpretation carries more importance than whatever canon's doing, and sometimes fanon gets percieved as trumping canon completely. In those cases you could make an argument for erasure if say a POC-as-white or gay-as-straight headcanon gains significant traction within a fandom.

It also gives the impression that, regardless of the author/artist's intent, they find something inherently wrong in the original depiction in a potentially offensive way -- i.e. that the minority status is something that requires "fixing." Fans turning characters gay/POC/trans because they see no representation of themselves has a much more positive trajectory than fans turning the very rare examples of those groups back to the majority (of which there are probably x10 the number in the canonical source already).

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, that last one's the big one to me.

I'm not going to call anyone out for it or anything, but if your (general you) reaction to a canon is "I really like this story, but you know what would make it better? making the nonwhite characters white" then that's probably worth some side-eyeing. I mean, I fully believe they don't *think* about it in those terms, but that's the point they've arrived at.