fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #383 ]

⌈ Secret Post #383 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

- Name that fandom, first comment!

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #055.
Secrets Not Posted: [1] broken links, [1] not!secrets, [ 1 ] not!fandom, 0 too big [1] personal attack, [ 1 ] repeat.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Thursday, January 24th, 2008.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

You can dislike a genre of something. It's not necessarily writing it off, you can just dislike it. Personally, I dislike abstract expressionism. I can see that it has a certain artistic merit, I think it was probably an important movement, I've read a lot of works from people who like it and I can see their points, I just don't like it. It doesn't do anything for me.

You're not inherently more right than someone who doesn't like something because you do like it. You can say, "they just don't know" all you want, but it's not necessarily true. It's possible to know everything that there is to know about something and just... dislike it. It doesn't make one of your more right than the other. It's just a fact of life.

So long as neither of us are crazy wankers about it, I don't see why we can't just all live in peace and harmony and all that rot. So long as you don't spend all your time telling me that "OMG I SLASH JACKSON POLLOCK'S AUTUMN RHYTHM WITH ROTHKO'S ORANGE AND YELLOW! HOORAY ANAL ART SEX! BUTTSEX BUTTSEX BUTTSEX EVERWHERE! LET'S DRESS UP LIKE POLLOCK PAINTINGS AND TELL PEOPLE THAT EVERYTHING BUT ABSTRACT EXPRESSIONIST SLASH SUCKS!" And I don't go all "OMG ABSTRACT EXPRESSIONISM IS SO STUPID AND EVERYONE WHO'S EVER LIKED A POLLOCK PAINTING IS FTL AND ROTHKO WAS A DUMBASS HOORAY DEAD ROTHKO" I think we can be okay.

Also really bugs me when people pretend like they know something about Japan because they watched an anime once. Or like everything would be dandy swell if they were Japanese, because Americans just don't understand their love for animated characters. It's a country, just like other countries, and it has its own rich cultural history and its own unique set of problems that people who get all "japan = anime" gloss over. If you judge a whole country based on a tv show you saw about it, then clearly I want to live in Britain because everyone who gets to do that gets to travel with Doctor Who. Or I want to live in Canada because I really liked C.R.A.Z.Y. Or I really MUST live in Norway because I liked a singer from there once. It's unreasonable. I'm not saying you did that, but I was on a roll. Anyway.

And IN CONCLUSION:

If A = B, then People Who Do Not Like A = People Who Do Not Like B.

Japan =/= Anime.

Therefore:

People Who Do Not Like Anime =/= People who Do Not Like Japan

Therefore, you can dislike something from somewhere without being a crazy racist and/or hating everything from there. (And I think the more appropriate term for your point, by the way, is a Xenophobe.)

Unless, of course, we get to call YOU something for disliking people who dislike anime. Isn't that prejudice in itself?

I agree with you, but the point is that anime/manga isn't a genre, it's a medium. You dislike expressionism, sure, but do you dislike art as a whole? I think that, really, is what the OP was trying to say.

I agree with you on the Japan =/= anime, though. That's a huge pet peeve of mine. Sorry, OP, but racism really has nothing to do with it.

Edited 2008-01-24 04:06 (UTC)

I don't know how I feel about people calling it a medium, really. That seems incorrect to me. I think of mediums as like, oil on canvas. Anime seems like a genre and a subset of the larger category of animation, the medium seems to depend on the artist. Ah well, that's a technicality. But even so, I think it's possible to dislike a medium. Installations, for instance. I know a lot of people who don't think installations are art. But that's also sort of a nonsequitor.

But yeah, again, feel exactly the same way.

Installations is again, not a medium, it's a genre of art. Books, TV, movie, art...they're medium. Sci-fi, fantasy, romance...those are genres. You're getting the two confused.

You're thinking, I think, to much in art terms. The two SORT of overlap, but Medium in art (I.e. Paint, pastels, etc) is not quiet the same as medium in this context.

But if you're going to call it art, you SHOULD think of it in art terms. According to OED, a medium is:

Any of the varieties of painting or drawing as determined by the material and technique used. Hence more widely: any raw material or mode of expression used in an artistic or creative activity.

Any physical material (as tape, disk, paper, etc.) used for recording or reproducing data, images, or sound.

Painting. Any liquid substance (as oil, water, albumen, etc.) with which pigment is mixed for use in painting.

I suppose accordingly, you could also call anime a medium, but it seems to fit more loosely.

I'm thinking more as entertainment then art. Like I said, the two do overlap, depending on your definition a lot (That was different then the one I was using), and don't quiet pull apart in to different terms neatly.

But it still work that way. An installation, or abstract art, or a romance novel or a rock CD is not a medium, it's something DONE with a medium. I think that's a good way to look at it. A genre is something DONE with a medium, and anime, unless you're trying to separate it from all other animation in the world (Which I greatly disagree with) is a medium. At best the only genre it'd fit in would be "Foreign" as that's the only tie between ALL anime.

I really can't help jumping in here -- anime isn't a genre, but no way is it a medium. Animation and comics are media. What anime is is apparently much harder to define (I like style, or really family of styles, myself, but the OP already nixed that one). But it's nowhere near as wide a category as books, movies or art.

As for the actual topic.... Actually, I think that anime does have certain trends in the way it's written, not just the art. There's still a ton of variation, of course, and there's always someone to buck a trend, but the trends are there, especially the more mainstream you go. They're almost certainly a lot of why Western audiences find anime so notable, but they aren't going to work for everyone.

I think part of the issue is anime fanbrats trying so hard to distinct it from American animation...anime is just animation from another country. In my mind it's fall under the animation medium. In Japan it's just a wider used one then here.

Your icon is made of absolute love and win :D

Wonder what he'd say if he had a limp wrist with a pulse...

See, I don't get just blanket disliking anime, unless you object to the way it's animated (I haven't watched many animes, but all the ones I've seen are kind of jerky... I can see how that would put someone off). I don't get people blanket disliking manga, either. Because there's so many different genres in anime and manga; it's not all magical girl stuff or giant robots destroying the world. I reckon anyone could probably find a story they liked - after all, it's about the stories, right? (Let us hope.) So you don't want to read a story that's set in Japan because you're confused by some cultural norms? Then you can go and find a manga set in France or somewhere. You're not interested in robots? Read a historical one. There's subject matter for every taste out there! (Besides, how would you ever know everything there is to know about such a catalogue of works? There seem to be zillions!)

Personally, I wasn't interested at all in anime and manga until I found out about The Rose of Versailles, which contains zero robots, zero magical girls, and in the anime, everyone's mouth is animated sensibly. Since then I've branched out, but that manga/anime has often been described as one that changes people's minds about manga.

[ SECRET POST #383 ]

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