fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #392 ]

⌈ Secret Post #392 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Liz will BRB, she got newted

Secrets Left to Post: 0 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #056.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 ] broken links, [ 1 ] not!secrets, [ 1 2 ] not!fandom, [ 1 2 3 4 ] too big, [ 1 2 3 ] repeats, [ 1 ] personal attack, [ 1 ] wasn't a subtle enough troll attempt, sorry. ):
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Saturday, February 2nd, 2008.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Hmm, interesting. If you don't mind, I'd like to tackle this and see if this is really the case. I'm not trying to argue with you, but merely satisfy the criteria you pose while using an original character.

Admittedly, the only involvement I've had with Apollo Justice is the flash version of the trial that Capcom released. If this is not really how it goes in the game, I apologize.

Let's say that instead of Phoenix, John Doe is Apollo's first client. Our first clues to John's past and personality is via Apollo, who we have to believe is a credible source because we ARE Apollo. He could be wrong, but this is what he believes.

First of all, he monologues that John was once a defense attorney and was one of the top in the country. We are asked to believe that with Edgeworth in the first game, and Phoenix is there to support that. So, believing that John is the same way is not too much to ask, and the idea is supported by Apollo claiming to become a defense attorney because of John. This satisfies point 1.

Because of the above, we also believe that John was, in fact, different than the way he's being presented now, both in his current status and his current behavior. We have to believe that Apollo wouldn't follow a crook, because he doesn't seem the type to follow someone who blatantly abuses the system (and, as we've seen in previous games, it's fairly difficult for prosecutors to pull the same word shenanigans that defense attorneys can). We're asked to believe that Mia is actually a good person in the first game, partially through her helping Phoenix in the first trial, and partially because of what Phoenix says about her. If that in itself is not enough, the introduction of another character that can act as a character witness for the player when doubt starts to creep in will satisfy this as well. Just when Apollo starts to think that maybe he was wrong in believing John to be the good guy he was, we introduce, say...a little sister, who pleads with John to not continue being like this, as this isn't who he really is. This is also used in the extra chapter of 1 when we're to believe that Lana isn't really capable of murder by the assertions of Ema. This satisfies point 2.

As for point 3, this can be handled with the writing itself. In the extra chapter of 1, we're made to become heavily emotionally attached to making sure Lana is absolved of the crime and the sisters reunited. Heck, I cried when Lana finally smiled at the end. With the groundwork made in 1 and 2, all it takes is a little pathos to make us actually care about John, whether he becomes a good guy trying to protect someone, or an actual tragic hero.

So, while I understand wanting to tie the different arcs together in some way, I think it's also pretty out there to change Phoenix so drastically to where he's on top of the world at the end of 3 with all kinds of possibilities to being a poker player in Apollo's first game. I'm holding final judgment on whether it's actually warranted until I get the game in my hands, however. So close...so close...

**(and, as we've seen in previous games, it's fairly difficult for defense attorneys to pull the same word shenanigans that prosecutors can)

-_-;

See, now those would work, certainly. I'm not saying it couldn't be done. I'm saying I don't think any of those points would be presented as strongly or effectively- yes, we believe Apollo, but our attachment to him is, at this moment, also very weak and so the impact is lessened. And I, personally, found myself not becoming very much attached to Mia over the first case; we have to remember this is a case that is, while maybe more like 2-1 or 3-1 than 1-1, overall a very short, deliberately easy case designed in this case to ease new people to the series in gently. I really don't think there would have been enough time unless this were done as a second case, which just takes even more spotlight away from Apollo. And the guys' lost enough already.

So yes, it would work. But I truly believe that it wouldn't work as well. To use your Lana example, I found the use of Ema as 'proof' something that actually made me think yes, she'd been tricked into doing it, not the opposite; it's so cliche by now to use a sweet character to trick you... And I feel a damn sight more for GS4!Nick than I did for Lana- and I felt a LOT of sympathy for Lana at the end! (I can relate to the crying-at-her-smiling thing.)

Yes, giving Phoenix more airtime in a post first-chapter case would have taken away from Apollo's spotlight...but isn't that the point that's trying to be made? Why have Phoenix in it at all? Why can't this just be like, say...the Silent Hill series where the only shared elements are the general structure of the world they're in? Is the world of Japanese law so small that we have to abuse a former title character to justify the change to a new one?

That's all I'm wondering. If in two weeks I throw that game in my DS and it hits me like a bolt out of the blue, I'll willingly and readily say I was completely wrong and it was totally necessary. But I finished 3 with the express intent of finding out what happens to Phoenix that would lead him to have this end (like, say, Maya dying or him losing or something like that), and was utterly shocked to see the rainbows and kittens rather than some tangible clue to why things went this way.

I'm not screaming at you or telling you you're wrong or anything, this is just something that's been stewing in my brain for a while. It all seems very canon-raping George-Lucas-esque at this point, in the vein of "we did it because we can", like they didn't expect Apollo to be able to stand on his own two feet and so needed Phoenix-crutch to limp through his first game.

Honestly, I would have been just as happy if Phoenix was to Apollo what Mia was to Phoenix in the first case...and then just up and retired, only to appear in cameos as the same quirky Phoenix I spent three games getting to know. This Phoenix seems like an impostor to me.

"...rather than some tangible clue to why things went this way."

Ahh... just out of curiosity... the phrasing leads me to believe maybe you aren't spoiled for GS4? Can you tell me just how spoiled you are?

I keep forgetting not everyone is a spoiled as I and I don't want to make assumptions or mistakes ^^;;

I've only played through the first maybe fifteen minutes of the mock trial Capcom put out in flash format. I've been pretty careful about not completely spoiling, but I'm not 100% in the dark. Just about...98%.

And the tangible clue was for the end of 3, which I very much so saw. :)

So, yeah, admittedly, this is a lot of someone whining on the sidelines before the game is out. It's mostly fueled by "oh God please don't suck", because this series of games is the first in a while I've gotten so wholly behind, and I'm already missing my blue-suited finger-pointing ace attorney. :T

Ahhh...

That explains it. I think a lot of very important events that you won't know about might- I know they didn't for everyone, but they still might- make it more understandable for you.

[ SECRET POST #392 ]

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Because I like extra comments! Cause I'm lazy!

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