[ SECRET POST #3147 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3147 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 052 secrets from Secret Submission Post #450.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

09. http://i.imgur.com/bqTc84a.png

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with a lot of the thought process here - it is probably more thematically interesting than the Rebellion stuff.

But I don't see any reason to think that they were good men, either in the way they're described in the SW fiction, or in our understanding of society and morality IRL. They were not evil in the same way as Palpatine, certainly, but that's not the same as being good.

[(Anonymous)]

I thought Needa taking responsibility and apologizing to Vader in person was pretty brave and showed that he cared about the people under his command. Especially since they were losing whole ships going after the Millennium Falcon.

[(Anonymous)]

That's fair, and right, but still, in the same vein: having good qualities does not mean that you are a good person either.

[(Anonymous)]

True, but I still wonder...they grew up under the Republic, where there was massive bureaucratic inefficiency and a huge Civil War broke out. I wonder how many of them believe in the Empire or believe it to be a Force for good in the galaxy?

[(Anonymous)]

But the question surely isn't whether they believe that; the question is whether or not it is compatible with their being good for them to believe that. And of course it varies from person to person. But I strongly suspect that most of them should be able to come to the conclusion that the Empire is massively a force for evil, and I don't give them a whole lot of credit for complacency or poor reasoning.

[(Anonymous)]

da

Historically, fundamentally decent people haven't come to the conclusion that their society is a serious force for evil despite the evidence being obvious to outside observers, particularly if that society rose out of a period of serious unrest or corruption. 'Stable' is the same as 'good' for a hell of a lot of the human population.

[(Anonymous)]

They blew up fucking Alderaan. I mean, maybe they're convinced they themselves are good, but only inasmuch as a lot of bad people think they're actually good. It doesn't make them good people.

[(Anonymous)]

I am consistently amazed that people actually remember the names of every single minor character in these movies.

[(Anonymous)]

People tend to remember names of characters in films they enjoy and think meta upon. There's nothing surprising about it.

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

It would be far more amazing if someone could list all the species names for the various patrons of the Cantina in ANH. Piett at least was a character who was used to highlight how stressful working under Vader's direct command can be. He's memorable for that.

[(Anonymous)]

What it says about you is that you have a desperate need to look edgy, different, and ironic (in the incorrect Morissette sense) by grasping the flimsiest straws possible.

Also I'm very confused about the "paragons of virtue" comment, and the "real people with real problems" comment. The rebels were hardly paragons, not even Luke - they were pretty amateurish, like real people would be - and ARE, in several countries right now in the real world. While the Imperial officers sure as hell weren't portrayed as having "regular problems." Unless you believe functioning in a highly oiled military machine where your boss regularly promotes people by murdering middle management "regular."

Unless you mean the Robot Chicken Parody stormtroopers? The ones who have to deal with "take your daughter to work day" in the middle of a rebel ambush and the like? Because THEN yeah, I'd agree with you.

[ketita]

Yeah, this secret sounds a bit like a revisionist version of Star Wars.

[(Anonymous)]

Basically this.

Hur dur I identify more with the villains than are a stan-in for genocide, so edgy...

[(Anonymous)]

#notallstormtroopers

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't consider Imperial officers good guys by any stretch, but they do tend to be more defined as characters. I can tell someone more about Needa than Wedge Antilles.

[(Anonymous)]

That your an evil nazi apologist who deserves to be shot in the street like a dog.

[ninety6tears]

Just because the bad guys aren't portrayed as shallow mustache twirlers with no inner lives doesn't make any of them (with the exception of...Vader? That's probably it) more developed than the main protagonists and I'm tempted to think anyone here disagreeing with that believes the only way to make a character complex is to make them immoral.

[(Anonymous)]

They're not being compared to the main protagonists, though. They're being compared to the background characters on the main protagonist's side. Most of the non-main Rebels are shallow props with no inner lives in the films.

The EU expands on them a lot, but that's not really relevant when you're talking about the movies.

[ninety6tears]

Hmm, the comparison between minor characters could be intended, I'm seeing now, but if so it's not clear.

[(Anonymous)]

It seems pretty clear to me. It's a picture of a background Imperial officer and a background Rebel pilot. Not of, idk, Vader and Luke.

[ninety6tears]

A minor rebel character being used as an example doesn't change the actual secret's lack of specificity, though.

[(Anonymous)]

ikr? Being utterly inmoral/uthenical apparently makes characters "complex" now. Which is so absurd but also terrifying.

[(Anonymous)]

I will admit to liking a good few Imperials, especially in the (Legends) EU, but that is primarily for reasons of Pellaeon. He's my favourite EU character by a mile, and he sort of retroactively made me look at other Imperials a little differently. I still don't think a lot of them are good people, but some of them do seem more sympathetic now.

Even just watching the movies, though, I did like Needa's last moment of awesome. When your boss is a telepathic killing machine known for taking failure very badly, it takes a lot of guts to stand up and admit failure. He had to know he was going to die for that, and he took responsibility anyway. It doesn't make him a good person, but at the very least he was a brave man who understood responsibility.

[tree_and_leaf]

Yeah, Needa is not a good person, but he does die well.