[ SECRET POST #3147 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3147 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 052 secrets from Secret Submission Post #450.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: Artistic or pretentious media?

[(Anonymous)]

To be honest, I think you're getting pretty defensive here. If I think a movie is shit, I will say it's shit. Is that criticism of the creator and audience (who enjoyed it)? If someone said so, I say they were taking it way too personally. Not everyone is going to like the things you enjoy, or find the things you think are artistic, artistic.

Re: Artistic or pretentious media?

[(Anonymous)]

Saying that a movie is bad and that people who like it have bad taste is categorically different to me from saying that people are pretending about liking something so they can seem higher-status than they actually are

Call it bad, I don't give a shit. If you don't think it's artistic, and say instead that it's bad, that's one thing. The part that bothers me is specifically the part where you say it's pretentious. And that whole mode of thought, where you're talking about this weird motive.

And, like, I honestly don't see how you could interpret it any other way.

Re: Artistic or pretentious media?

[(Anonymous)]

There's an enormous difference in saying a film is pretentious - in which it is trying to be deeper and more artistic than it actually is - and saying that people are pretentious. I'm not sure why you are equating a judgment about a film with a judgment about a viewer who enjoyed that film, if me substituting "shit" for "pretentious" is fine by you.

Re: Artistic or pretentious media?

[(Anonymous)]

Well, for one thing, because the way the term is used does not clearly distinguish between those kinds of judgments. Look at that post about Christopher Nolan's movies below - the post first says that the movies are pretentious, and then says that people like them because they make people feel intelligent even though they're not. And that is pretty typical of the way people use the word IMO. The way the word is used about a film is just an indicator of a deeper attitude about pretentiousness where the quality gets assigned not just to things but to the people who make and like those things.

Re: Artistic or pretentious media?

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

That's because it actually is pretty hard to make certain judgments about a movie (or any creative work) without an implied judgment about the people who like it or claim to like it. When we say that a film others think deep and artistic is pretentious, we are indeed saying that those who thought it deep and artistic were taken in by fakery and gimmicks--and maybe by the claim that it was deep and artistic. There can also be an implication that they were posturing as well--that they were determined to like it because they thought that liking it would mark them as people of sophistication and discernment.

Re: Artistic or pretentious media?

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

It's less that they're pretending to like something to seem higher-status than they actually are--more that they've been taken in by something mediocre whose creator is trying to make his work seem deeper than it is. Though I suppose there's an element of posturing in the people who like and praise it--they're glad they like it, and they're happy to rave about it because they feel that liking it demonstrates their fine taste.

Re: Artistic or pretentious media?

[(Anonymous)]

the tone argument? really? you're missing the point

Re: Artistic or pretentious media?

[(Anonymous)]

what are you even talking about? the comment called it like it saw it.