fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3181 ]

[ SECRET POST #3181 ]

⌈ Secret Post #3181 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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09. [WARNING for rape]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 070 secrets from Secret Submission Post #455.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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08. http://i.imgur.com/faPYs6b.png

Image: Two screen shots of Garak and Bashir from Star Trek; Deep Space Nine, from Season 6, Episode 1 "A Time to Stand". In the top picture, Bashir is saying "then how do you explain my boyish smile?". In the second picture, Garak replies "Not so boyish anymore, Doctor."

Text: I never really "saw" Garak/Bashir, but DAMN if this scene didn't read as a break-up to me.

(Is this, like, reverse shipping?)

It's been ages since I've watched the later seasons (I've slowly been working my way through the show again though, so I'm having all the feels about the missed opportunity that was this ship), but this was not too long after the reveal of Bashir's genetic background, wasn't it? I see how Garak's comment can read as disenchantment, but I always thought that, after the reveal, Garak should have been even more interested, since his naive, young puppy of a doctor turned out to be very much his equal in regards to keeping secrets, being an outsider, and living in constant fear of losing everything he has. If only tptb hadn't gotten a bad case of gay panic when they found out about Garak/Bashir.

So much this. Rejigging the storyline for Odo was done well, all things considered, but there definitely wasn't the same undertones of betrayal/etc. that would have come to the forefront, if the Obsidian Order had decided Garak was to torture Bashir, instead.

You're right, the reveal had come in the previous season. In fact, most of the conversation before the part that appears in my secret is all about Bashir having calculated the odds of their survival, and Garak getting offended by it.

You raise a good point about the character element, too; I'll have to keep that in mind when I eventually re-watch the series.

What's the context for this scene?

SPOILERS FOR DEEP SPACE NINE.

At this point in the show, the Federation has wound up in a war with a race of shapeshifters, plus the Cardassians (the race that Garak, the alien-looking guy, is from). About half-a-season prior, Bashir had been revealed to be genetically engineered (which is illegal), so he's actually incredibly smart. Most of the cast of the show has just been forced off the station, their home, and are on the run, trying to regroup and form a plan.

In this scene, Garak asks Bashir to use his genetically engineered brain to calculate their odds of survival. When Bashir says something like "32%", Garak gets offended at how quickly he came to that conclusion, how low their odds are, and how blase Bashir is about it, blaming it in part on his genetic engineering.

There was something about the tone of the argument, and especially the way Garak was acting, that came across as a break-up to me, especially the exchange I used in my secret. It was like Bashir was reaching out, and Garak was pushing him away, saying "you've changed too much."

Here's the whole scene; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVQ9Vx7CIMQ. Maybe I just read too much into it, but at least you can judge for yourself.

Thanks, OP! I've only seen a bit of DS9 and didn't remember this episode at all.

Aaaaactually, now that I've rewatched the scene, this can very much be interpreted as Garak showing interest.

Remember that episode where that Cardassian engineer developed a crush on O'Brien and we learned that Cardassians flirt by being confrontational? Sure, Garak does seem to be criticizing Bashir for his "new" personality, but if insulting = flirting, then really all he did was engage Bashir in a quabbling discussion just like the ones they used to share over lunch on the station (albeit with a more serious topic to reflect the dire circumstances), make sure to point Bashir's talents and how impressively suited for thriving under these circumstances he is (healer, highly intelligent, very quick to calculate odds and react accordingly, calm and collected even in the face of likely defeat and death).

I like to assume that their friendship started out on Garak's side as motivated by loneliness and the old habit of wanting a convenient in with the people in charge, but that he understandably saw Bashir himself more as an intelligent yet very young and sheltered human who could benefit from a bit of mentoring and having his mind expanded, a low-key protégé to mold but more so to play with, and that his attitude changed slowly as the show progressed and Bashir showed himself to hold determined strength and potential (early key episodes being The Wire, and that one episode where Bashir was stuck in his own mind after being attacked by some alien, his subconsciousness cast Garak as the villain, and Garak ended up being so very pleased with that). Their personalities strongly differed and clashed in regards to sacrifice, with Garak very much putting himself first while Bashir will not hesitate to risk his own life to save others (Our Man Bashir) while they in reverse disagree on The Neverending Sacrifice. By that point in the show, however, Garak had firmly thrown his lot in with Starfleet and the main cast's fight for the Alpha quadrant, and Bashir had seen his fair share of war and shown no problem with putting the lives of his friends second to the greater good of fighting the Dominion.

Really, Bashir not being so boyish anymore should be what makes him a potential partner in Garak's eyes rather than an entertaining and at times useful diversion, their characters are much more compatible at that point, and by Cardassian standards Garak is likely flirting here. Granted, he spent enough time exiled that he might be talking to human Bashir as to a human, insults just being insults, but that interpretation is not as relevant to my interests.

Edit: ...Forgot to anon. Oh well, at least I'll get notified of possible replies.

Edited 2015-09-20 16:36 (UTC)

Cute pictures. Makes me want to start watching DS9 again. I will some day, but the sheer number of episodes daunts me. I want to see them all again this time.

I've never even watched Star Trek, but this kind of makes me want to start watching DS:9.

Is it any good? Where should I start?

DS9 is great and you should start with the first episode. Season 1 is a little awkward but it's necessary to see all of it.

DS9 is the best trek imo.

At the beginning.

I mean, you could start with some of the TNG episodes about Chief O'Brien I guess; but no, it's probably best just to start at the beginning of DS9 (no colon!). It's seven seasons, you can do it slowly.

Maybe three years ago, I was trying to catch up on the later seasons I hadn't seen, and I think I got through one of them, but not to the end.

The thing about DS9 is that it's a large ensemble of characters with a lot of different recurring space-fantasy elements. So in a season, you can have a bunch of episodes about the Dominion War, then a weird episode about the Ferengi culture, a time-travel episode about the Cardassian occupation of Bajor, an episode about O'Brien's family, and an episode about the Prophets. It's not all one thing, and it's OK to like some parts better than others.

^ this. Also you can skip any episode with the word "profit" in the title.

like, this is your opinion and that's fine but I wish people wouldn't say this kind of thing to people who haven't watched something. Anon can decide whether they like those episodes or not.

fuck off

Actually, I agree. I like Quark and Rom, but "Ferengi culture" is a bit wacky for me. But anon might like the Ferengi!

No.

You might want to start with TNG, tbh. I started with Voyager (ran concurrent with DS9 at one point, but kind of the third series) and I had absolutely no clue what was going on. I backtracked to DS9 (ran concurrent with DS9, but more the second series) and I still felt a bit clueless. So, I went all the way back to TNG (the first, not including The Original Series), which references the original, but doesn't really have story elements or plot that continues through to TNG, DS9 and VOY (save for a few things). But, TNG carries story through to DS9 and VOY, so, personally, I think you should just start at the beginning of the newer incarnation of Trek (not considering the new films). The Original Series is a lot of fun and very good, but it's not completely necessary to understand TNG, DS9 or VOY. You should give it a go and some point too.

Don't skip seasons or episodes (like some jerk suggested). Some people hate certain characters and try and shit on new, potential fans but telling them just to avoid certain things. They want you to watch the show for them. Don't listen! Watch the show for YOU, and learn what you like and don't like.

There's also Enterprise, which I've seen a bit of. It's the fourth series, though chronologically it comes before The Original Series. People usually watch it last. It's the most maligned Trek, but I think it has good points and bad points, just as all the Treks do.

Happy Treking!

~~why is this so hot to me~~

there is definitely a point in the series where I think they were no longer together and they eventually became amicable but kind of awkward exes and I love it and now I want to read fic where maybe they hookup after breaking up and it ends terribly

what I mean to say is

I'm really glad I opened fs tonight, I love this

This is relevant to my interests.

Surprisingly, this scene is actually on youtube. This may completely blow my secret to pieces for most of you, but feel free to take a look and decide for yourself if there are break-up vibes;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVQ9Vx7CIMQ

Your secret is justified. I'm not even familiar with these characters or this show, and now I ship it. Thanks a lot.

I've always shipped Bashir/Garak.

Didn't the actor for Garak say he was deliberately acting flirty towards Bashir?

Yep.

Andrew Robinson provided non-canon insight into his role when interviewed by Amazon.com, stating "I started out playing Garak as someone who doesn't have a defined sexuality. He's not gay, he's not straight, it's a non-issue for him. Basically his sexuality is inclusive. But – it's Star Trek and there were a couple of things working against that. One is that Americans really are very nervous about sexual ambiguity. Also, this is a family show, they have to keep it on the 'straight and narrow', so then I backed off from it. Originally, in that very first episode, I loved the man's absolute fearlessness about presenting himself to an attractive human being. The fact that the attractive human being is a man (Bashir) doesn't make any difference to him, but that was a little too sophisticated I think. For the most part, the writers supported the character beautifully, but in that area they just made a choice they didn't want to go there, and if they don't want to go there I can't, because the writing doesn't support it." (Memory-Alpha)

Gene Roddenberry had plans to include gay crewmembers in TGN. He said, "It is entirely fitting that gays and lesbians will appear unobtrusively aboard the Enterprise—neither objects of pity nor melodramatic attention." This sounds a lot like he'd have been fine with Robinson's playing Garak as not caring that Bashir happened to be a man and would likely have taken the opportunity presented. Unfortunately Roddenberry died shortly after that interview, and his successors obviously didn't want to go where no family scifi show had gone before. Kate Mulgrew has gone on record regarding Star Trek's lack of LGBT characters saying that she approached Rick Berman several times but he was "very firm about certain things" and kept brushing her off. (x)

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[ SECRET POST #3181 ]

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