[ SECRET POST #3181 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3181 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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09. [WARNING for rape]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 070 secrets from Secret Submission Post #455.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Harry Truman purposely killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians to make a political statement.

The US detonated the world’s first weapon of mass destruction simply to send a message to the Soviet Union and stop Red expansion into Asia.

Oh, and I’ll leave on this little note from President Truman’s youth. Again, I’m not saying he’s racist or anything, but…

In Hiroshima: Why America Dropped the Bomb, Japanese American historian Ronald Takaki writes about the man who made the final decision to destroy two Japanese cities, President Harry Truman. This was the same man who, when he was younger, wrote the following in a letter to his future wife, Bess:

"I think one man is as good as another, so long as he’s honest and decent and not a nigger or a Chinaman. My uncle Will says that the Lord made a white man of dust, a nigger from mud, then threw up what was left and it came down a Chinaman. He does hate Chinese and Japs. So do I. It is race prejudice I guess. But I am strongly of the opinion that negroes ought to be in Africa, yellow men in Asia, and white men in Europe and America."

[tabaqui]

Yikes.

[(Anonymous)]

Watch yt Americans ignore that letter :)

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not ignoring it, but context matters.

Is funny to me that the Japanese of the time would be less offended by the pro-white racism, and more offended that this white guy who they would see as clearly ignorant, dared to lump them in with the Chinese.

[(Anonymous)]

The Japanese were racist again the Chinese and vice versa and nobody denies that. This racism explains atrocities like the Rape of Nanking.

But I keep seeing that the dropping of the bomb "has nothing to do with race!". Why on earth is the racism of the person who ordered to drop the bomb on people he considered /subhuman/ not up to examination?

[(Anonymous)]

Because…the Japanese were never under threat of extermination?

Like…the US occupied Japan but it's not like a genocidal rampage occurred.

You could more easily make this argument about Stalin and Eastern Europe.

Yeah, the US was racist. Yeah, the US bombed the shit out of Japan.

Germany also had the shit bombed out of it.

Plus, Germany surrendered on May 7, 1945. The atomic bomb's first detonation test was JULY 16th of that year -- 1945. So of course it wasn't going to be used on Germany -- Germany had already surrendered.

According to this document:

http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/R03-T06-F23-Military-Policy-Committee-Minutes-of-Meetings.pdf

The original target was the Japanese FLEET because if the bomb failed to go off, it would go into the ocean, making it more difficult to salvage. Also, Japan didn't have the same nuclear program that the Nazis did, making the risk of secrets being uncovered much, much smaller.

These seem, by every measure, to be PRACTICAL concerns.

[(Anonymous)]

Truman was racist. Duh.

Were the Japanese less racist? Ask the Chinese.

[(Anonymous)]

I hate this strawman omg


THE JAPANESE WERE RACIST AGAINST THE CHINESE
NO DENIAL BY ABSOLUTELY ANYONE
EVERYONE KNOWS BECAUSE ITS TAUGHT
IT EXPLAINS THEIR WAR CRIMES

TRUMAN WAS RACIST
BUT NO ONE EVEN KNOWS IT BECAUSE IT IS NOT TAUGHT
NOR DISCUSSES IT
NOR CONSIDERS IT MIGHT HAD AFFECTED THE BOMBS' USAGE

NO THEY KEEP SAYING RACE PLAYED NO PART ON IT

[(Anonymous)]

Er…EVERYONE knows Truman was racist.

Like, everyone I know basically assumes that people from the 1940s (ANYTHING pre-1960s especially) was racist as fuck.

DUH

[tabaqui]

Uh, yeah, no, because i've never read that passage before, those words before, had no idea he felt that way, and you can *bet* that's not taught in US schools.

And no, 'everybody' was not racist pre-anything, just like 'everybody' is not racist now.

[(Anonymous)]

Wow…you sounds SUPER naive. I don't know how to say that in a way that isn't offensive but just…wow.

Like, we learned ALL about internment camps at my public school. Given what those ARE, it's pretty obvious to see that the people who did that were racist as fuck.

[tabaqui]

Don't be an idiot. What you learned in school was not what *everybody* learned. I'm not naive - 'everyone' is not racist, never has been. We did *not* learn about Truman's racism in school - certainly nothing like that letter was *ever* talked about, at any time. I don't remember any real discussion of the internment camps, either, or *why* we would do that to citizens, or what regular citizens thought about it.

Please stop painting the past with a wide brush - humanity and individual humans are never all one anything.

[(Anonymous)]

No shit not every single person learned it. But if you're going to talk about the American public school system then, as a graduate of the American public school system, I'm going to speak up.

Maybe YOU didn't -- but all that says is that your school was substandard. And if you're going to accuse me of generalizing my experience then you might not want to do so yourself.

You didn't learn about internment camps. Okay -- so that somehow means that the rest of the American public shares your ignorance?

And, yes, I know not literally every person in the past was racist. But there's a reason that the "racist grandma" thing exists -- it's because we generally presume that previous generations were, as a whole, more racist than the current generation.

[tabaqui]

Jesus, you just want to be a dick, don't you? Guess what - schools change. I graduated high school in 1985. What they taught us then? They teach differently now. More, for the most part. But *very differently*. They *never* talked about what we did to the Native Americans, they *never* talked about the hatred we had for practically every immigrant group that came through. We didn't discuss 'No dogs or Irish' signs, or the lynching of Black people, or the abuse suffered by Chinese immigrants. It was all very bland and boring and 'yay! America!!' and if you think i'm the *only person here*, or in the States, that had that as an education?

Then you are either being deliberately obtuse or are very confused. It's something we've even *talked about* here in F!S, that American education can be, was, and *is* very lax about a lot of things.

So, good for you, your schooling was awesome and inclusive and taught you *every little thing*. A lot of us had to learn that stuff on our own, out of school or in it.

Your ignorant if you think *your* schooling was the norm. So please get off your high horse.

[(Anonymous)]

*You're ignorant

As for my high horse, nope, I'll stay right on it.

It really pisses me off when people try to act as though the only reason someone could possibly support the use of the atomic bombs in WWII is because they're ignorant.

No. We not only learned about internment camps in history class, but basically half our senior year of English was devoted to studying the bombing. We read the updated version of John Hersey's Hiroshima. We read James Loewen. We read testimony from the Japanese survivors of the blast. We read statements by BOTH American and Japanese generals. Months and months were spent on this because our final essay on this topic was a position paper on whether or not we believed the bombing had been justified and then using sources to support our position.

I found, even after reading all these sources, that the bombing had been justified. I'm not speaking out of ignorance. My public school never tried to hide anything from me.

If you disagree, feel free to -- but people will criticize your points if they don't find them well-founded or supported (as I do).

But I am sick of people acting as though disagreement can only be due to ignorance.

[tabaqui]

You are the one who started tossing around the word 'ignorant' and also, remember, 'naive'.

And, once again your schooling/= my schooling or the entire US' schooling. So, yes, once again - *you* are being ignorant and rather naive.

I disagree that we were justified, and shall always do so. Many people - including people a hell of a lot smarter than either of us - feel the same.

So we have agreed to disagree, and I am now going afk, as i have a thing to attend. Feel free to have the last word. I'm done.

[(Anonymous)]

"Harry Truman purposely killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians to make a political statement." -- War is inherently political. Do you not understand that the USA was at war with Japan. In a conflict INSTIGATED BY Japan.

The USA had been extensively bombing Japanese cities throughout the entirety of the war. The casualties were highest not in Hiroshima, not in Nagasaki, but in Tokyo, which was bombed with conventional weaponry.

The fact that Truman was racist doesn't mean much here. The Japanese were also pretty fucking racist. Have you seen the way they treated the Chinese? Whatever we did to the Japanese (and it was horrific, no doubt) the Japanese certainly matched in things like Unit 731.

[(Anonymous)]

Isn't Truman the one who also went on to integrate the military?