[ SECRET POST #401 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #401 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 16 pages, 384 secrets from Secret Submission Post #058.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 ] broken links, [ 1 2 3 4 5 ] not!secrets, [ 1 ] not!fandom, [ 1 ] too big, [ 1 2 3 ] repeat.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Monday, February 11th, 2008.
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: tl;dr comment to 27

[herongale]

I know you were not talking about fanfiction. But a bad original character is a bad original character, whether it occurs in fanfiction or in an original story. Either Mary Sues can exist in both formats, or they exist in neither. It is illogical to state that a character in an original piece of fiction cannot exhibit the traits of a Sue just because she happens to come with her own special little world. It's not the WORLD that defines a "Sue," but rather characteristics native to the OC.

All I'm saying is that either Mary Sues can exist across all forms of fiction, or they don't exist at all. There is nothing that requires them to be tied to derivative fanworks only.

Although it might hurt your feelings to have your favourite characters called "Sues," and although perhaps at least half the time those accusations are meritless, it does not follow that there are NO such things as Canon Sues. All it means is that the term is overused.

And I really don't buy the argument that female characters are disproportionately targeted. Some people, I'm sure, are sexist about this. But I don't think it's actually as prevalent as people like to imagine; everyone I know (including myself) who uses the Canon Sue label is just as quick to call someone a Canon Stu. A good many of my favourite anime series involve characters who are indisputably Canon Stus.

I suspect that your experience reflects your fannish preferences; you might see it more with female characters, perhaps because you pay more attention to those characters than other fans might. Slash fen are more likely to notice Canon Stus, for example, since they tend to prefer male characters.

The anon who posted the secret originally under discussion was saying that he/she looks down on people who think Canon Sues exist. I was not suggesting you said that, but since it WAS said, I think that point deserves to be countered. Anyone is free to look down on anyone for any reason, of course: but no one has to agree that said reasons are logical or fair.

Re: tl;dr comment to 27

[demyx.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see your point now. And yeah, that is a damn good argument, one that I can't really counter, heh. My original point was that the term is overused, yeah, but I do know I can't say canon sues don't exist (I don't ever say a character is a Sue/Stu, I say they're poorly written, so I think I'm just calling them the same thing under a different title. Hm...)

I didn't agree with the original sentiments that people who think canon sues exist were wrong though, or that they were sexist, I just agreed that the term was thrown away WAY too much. But the heart of my comment was sort of "Yeah, female characters get shafted, rargh!".

Thank you for the discussion though! (not being sarcastic XD;) You are right, and I think I might have to renounce my opinion since I can't really think of any counter-argument on that, and well... I kinda agree. and besides, just because a character is a "Sue" doesn't necessarily mean people would hate them. I saw more than one secret about how people sometimes prefer "perfect" characters, so maybe the label isn't as bad as I think anyway.