[ SECRET POST #3216 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3216 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.
(The Blacklist)


__________________________________________________



03.
[The Sum Of Us/Russell Crowe]


__________________________________________________



04.
[Dan and Phil]


__________________________________________________



05.
[Tokyo Ghoul:re]


__________________________________________________



06.
[dick grayson]


__________________________________________________



07.
[Scandinavia and the World]


__________________________________________________



08.
[Doctor Who]


__________________________________________________



09.
[One Piece]


__________________________________________________



10.
[Lost Dimension]


__________________________________________________



11.
[Sleepy Hollow]










Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 075 secrets from Secret Submission Post #460.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

11. http://i.imgur.com/Ya2Bb5T.jpg
[Sleepy Hollow]

[kaijinscendre]

Fandom ALWAYS overestimates their influence on shows. And when they do influence shows, they generally do not follow through with whatever stuff they promised to do.

[(Anonymous)]

so them making her evil at the end of the season with little buildup had nothing to do with the character being unpopular (something even the actress was aware of)?

[(Anonymous)]

MTE

[(Anonymous)]

I think it was for several reasons.

1) They hadn't done much with her character and it was rather boring.
2) A dash of villainy with the the possible option of redemption is interesting.
3) It made sense because it fit in with Henry being on the dark side, thereby creating a more complex push-pull of good vs. bad. Ichabod has to choose between good and his wife and son. Katrina has to choose between good/Ichabod and her son. Abbie is deeply involved in the good vs. evil but realizes she absolutely cannot make this choice for Ichabod and her ability to help him is limited.

Those are all solid reasons based on the writing to make Katrina evil... and it wasn't even that simple, there was a downward arc, she didn't just wake up on the Dark Side. None of that has anything to do with the fact that a few vocal fangirls on the internet ship Ichabod/Abbie and are crazy jealous of anyone who gets in the way of their ship because if fandom had that much influence on TV, Firefly would've never been cancelled.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know about anyone else, but ever since she shoved Ichabod down a hole and into the future without telling him anything about what she was doing or what was going on, I've been suspicious of her motives and morals. The whole descent into evil thing didn't seem to me to be that much of a stretch.

[(Anonymous)]

On the one hand, you are correct about fandom overestimating its influence on canon. Not just this fandom, but fandom as a whole.

On the other hand, we live in a post-Korrasami world where anything can happen. I don't think there's ever been a period in fannish history where canonical pandering ran more rampant than it does now.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, if the fans are lucky they will get a ambiguous sort of gay ending that TPTB TOTALLY swear was 100% gay because the show is over and they lose nothing.

Also, you really think a small show on Nick (wasn't the last season like...just online) is going to influence other studios?

[(Anonymous)]

Korrasami was pandering? Where did this come from? I thought they had been playing with the idea from the beginning but didn't think it would fly originally.

Yeah, yeah, I know, I know, creators lie all the time, blah, blah, blah. But of Bryke were into fandom pandering, Zutara would have been end-game in the original series.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the people outside of that fandom also overestimate its influence on everything else. You might be surprised to find out that the majority of the TV-watching population doesn't know what the hell "Korrasami" is, and they don't care.

[(Anonymous)]

Unpopular characters getting killed/written off is pretty common, specially when the ratings are bad.

Fandom may not have as much influence as some people think, but saying that fan's opinion have no influence is... rather ignorant.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't conflate fandom and viewers, not the same thing. A large section of a show's audience not responding favourably to character may certainly influence show runners. The intersection of fandom and general audience is, no doubt, growing, depending on the show and its genre, still I think fandom vastly overestimates its influence. It is kinda interesting,though, especially if you come from the days when the first rule of fandom was 'don't talk about fandom', and fondly remember the smackdowns when someone dared suggest exposing their favs to fanfic. Sigh, those were the days; now where are my Werthers.

[(Anonymous)]

I feel as if Ichabod and Abbie were set up as an USTy couple from the beginning. Is there anyone who DOESN'T ship that?

That's like not shipping Mulder and Scully...so weird to me!

Nobody cared about Katrina because she was a dead wife ghost from a different century. I think. I was too bored to watch S2.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't ship Ichabod and Abbie. But then I also didn't ship Mulder and Scully. I like good partnerships with chemistry, but I don't need it to be a romance.

[helenadax]

I don't even begin to understand wtf happened last season and how a show so cool could end up being such a mess. If season one had been bad, I'd understand the need to make changes, but everything was great and suddenly some clueless guy looked at it and thought: "This show needs more Katrina".

Anyway, fans can influence shows, it happens sometimes. Xena and Gabrielle became a couple thanks to fans and I'm pretty sure it happened the same with Santana and Brittany on Glee.

vague spoilers?

[elaminator]

I agree, I don't believe the show killed off Katrina because of shippers. I think the show killed off Katrina because almost everyone who watched (in fandom or otherwise) was bored of Katrina and losing interest in the current direction of the show (IE the focus on Ichabod and his family), and TPTB didn't know what to do to 'fix' her character so they got rid of her entirely. If they had kept her around but given her more to work with I would've been fine with that, but after S2 they probably didn't want to risk it.

As for Ichabod and Abbie, they've had a close relationship since S1, and people who are into the thought of them as a couple could easily take plenty of their scenes as 'hints'. IMO people that want them to stay as friends will get just as much out of the show. It's only recently that the 'hints' feel like they could mean more, but all in all their dynamic feels the same. I doubt the show is going there regardless; both characters have other options. (If anything, it will stay 'will they, won't they'.)

But I disagree that fans can't influence shows (and media in general), they can and do, but I think it happens more rarely then some think.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the writers didn't know what to do with her from the beginning.

OTOH

[(Anonymous)]

If I hear one more IchAbbie shipper crowing over what a bitch Katrina was and how happy she got killed off so now that IchAbbie can finally get together I will scream. I always felt so sorry for Katia Winter for having to read all that hatred against her character, and I despise how the writers suddenly made her character do a 180 into evil. It's eerily similar to what the writers of Grimm did with Juliette, only their reasoning was (allegedly) that this was to clear the way for Nick/Adalind (who should have been killed off in season one).

I've dropped both shows, and though it was hard for me to drop Grimm, ultimately I don't regret it.

[tabaqui]

Yeah, I don't think fandom had much of anything to do with that but good *lord* did they screw that character up. Season two was such a boring mess.

I hold out hope season three will continue in its current vein - it's been damn interesting so far.

(I love Ichabod and Abbie being friends, it's great!)

What I want to know is - why does no one talk about this show when talking about good women characters and black women and men in leading roles? Because we have *both*, and nobody seems to care.

[(Anonymous)]

Didn't once upon a time kill Neil off for Emma/Captain Hook?

[(Anonymous)]

Only killing off characters because of fandom is absolutely a thing that happens. Take Supernatural for instance: Bela and Ruby both were killed off because the fanbase (read as: psychotic shippers) hated them. The writers sort of waffled in interviews about it, but openly admitted that a good chunk of the decision was due to the fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

I think what most people who say that mean is that the show killed Katrina off JUST because they eventually plan to make Ichabod and Abbie a couple. I think many of them know that the two haven't gotten together yet, that they're still just friends for now. It's more that they feel the show is going to go in that general direction eventually, though, and are miffed that she got killed off just for that purpose.

It's sort of like the whole thing of turning her evil-if she'd stayed on, and the show had gone in a "love triangle" direction, I wouldn't have liked them turning Katrina evil just to make Ichabod's choice of who he should be with easier, simply because I don't really care for that trope when it comes to love triangles in general. It's an easy out to the dilemma. Ichabod and Abbie's chemistry speaks for itself, after all, and there could've been other creative, interesting ways to split Katrina and Ichabod up if they wanted to eventually make Ichabod/Abbie become canon.

All of that being said, however, I agree with you and others that I don't think she was killed off just to make the Ichabod/Abbie shippers happy. Nor do I think their whole thing of turning her evil was done to make it easier for Ichabod to leave her and go with Abbie or whatever. I think they were trying to do some genuinely interesting things with her character in and of itself at the end of her run...but unfortunately, by then, it was too little, too late. And I think all the other reasons everyone else listed here for why she was ultimately killed off are pretty accurate.

Personally, I didn't hate her, and do wish they'd figured out more to do with her character and found a good way and reason to keep her around, whether she stayed with Ichabod or not. And I'd heard about both Katia and Nicole getting horribly nasty tweets and such from different corners of fandom, and I'm sorry that both of them had to put up with that kind of bullshit from some immature, obnoxious fans. If that did have any impact on the show at all, then that sucks.

Bottom line, though, Katrina's gone, and the show's moved on, and they're trying to correct things, so...*Shrugs* Any fans who do have issues with those facts will just have to deal with it somehow and move on in their own way as well, I suppose.

[(Anonymous)]

I just feel sorry for Katia Winter. It seemed like the show never figured out what her role was or how to fit her into the story. She never seemed to have a purpose in that awkward second season.I wish she had been used better.

[iggy]

I felt that Katrina's death was inevitable from the beginning, honestly. Whether how it happened was impacted by fandom, I don't know, but I think she was going to die from the getgo.

I prefer female characters 95% of the time, but Katrina was one of the few examples where I did honestly get the hate, even if the way it manifested was often unforgivably misogynistic and gross (and sending hate to the actress was indeed awful).

[habilelapin]

It felt a lot more like the writers just didn't know what to do with her beyond her being a deus ex machina. She wasn't a bad character, or anything, but I always felt sort of...underwhelmed by her, myself. She reached the end of her arc in the story, and that was that.