Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2015-12-01 06:39 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2015-12-01 06:39 pm
[ SECRET POST #3254 ]
⌈ Secret Post #3254 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 029 secrets from Secret Submission Post #465.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
Re: Question about a thread from yesterday...
(Anonymous) 2015-12-02 06:02 am (UTC)(link)situations where you live with someone and share finances and are basically a common-law couple except without sex
See, I'd count that as romantic. All the time I see people who identify as aromantic and want the exact same type of relationship that people who consider themselves romantic want, and it doesn't make sense to me. To be describing the exact same thing, but call it two different things...I guess it just depends on your definition of romantic. To you, does it have to involve sex to be considered romantic and if it doesn't, then it's something else?
I think for me the distinction is the level of commitment. If two people live together, share finances, are involved in all the day to day domestic stuff together, go on vacation together, make all the big decisions together, do whatever they need to do to keep the relationship together (like move if one of them gets another job somewhere else, because they don't want to be apart, like spouses generally would), take care of each other when they're sick, plan on being together for their entire lives, etc...all the stuff that makes up most marriage vows, basically. To me, that's romance, regardless of whether sex is involved.
It's interesting to me how people can have such different ideas on it!
Re: Question about a thread from yesterday...
(Anonymous) 2015-12-02 06:50 am (UTC)(link)I feel like this is a question you wouldn't ask if you were ace.
I mean, would it bother you if half the people who ever spoke to you called you by the wrong name, because the first time you met them, briefly somewhere, you told them your name was Sandy or Dave because your actual name was something annoyingly complicated, or that they would laugh at? It's not an exact comparison, just something to get the point across.
Each individual instance where someone doesn't see the reality of you is no big deal. But when it's several times a day for an entire life? Yeah, it's fucking LONELY. It's fucking LONELY to not being able to say "My boyfriend" and have it FIT. Have it truly be YOU and YOUR LIFE your talking about.
And honestly, I'd rather someone mistakenly think the relationship was sexual when it wasn't but at least take it seriously than just dismiss it as unimportant because it wasn't sexual.
You don't think that plays a part!? You don't think that maybe part of the reason it feels bad to say "boyfriend" is because it's easier? Because it's a small but pivotal inaccuracy that doesn't leave a person feeling vulnerable and dismissed, but that also doesn't leave a person feeling recognized?
I'm really trying not to bite your head off here, but I'm feeling a bit sick at having to put this into words. I forget that many people don't know what it's like to not be able to express who they are on some of these basic levels - not because they don't know who they are, but because other people can't conceptualize it, and don't want to hear it, and because sometimes there isn't even a language to express it with.
See, I'd count that as romantic.
I consider "romantic" an emotional qualifier. It's a certain kind of love, or a certain kind of emotion than one hopes will grown into that certain kind of love. A romantic relationship is not defined by the practicalities, but by what the people in it feel about each other and about their relationship.
Some ace people are romantic and may be in common-law relationships that are, by their understanding of the terms, romantic but non-sexual. I don't presume to dictate what words they should use to describe their relationship to others. OTOH, some ace/aro people may be in common-law relationships where there is no romantic feeling. The way I understand it, the feeling between them would essentially be a feeling of very close friendship. However, it's perfectly understandable that they would want some other term to explain what they are to each other, as the word "friendship" would likely feel inadequate in conveying the extent of their practical (and perhaps emotional) commitment to each other.
Re: Question about a thread from yesterday...
(Anonymous) 2015-12-02 07:13 am (UTC)(link)I do wish there was a clearer word for what you described in the end. I've read people use queerplatonic for similar relationships, but I get that the use of queer in it rubs people (including me) the wrong way.
I'd suggest platonic life-partner or platonic partner, but I don't know if that will really cut it for them...
Re: Question about a thread from yesterday...
(Anonymous) 2015-12-02 07:50 am (UTC)(link)I'm just hesitant to dismiss it outright, without considering why people may feel the need for it. In some cases I'm in full agreement with most of the other people here that it's being used to give ~*special snowflake*~ validation to what amounts to a friendship. But there may well be people who truly feel the need for a word we don't have yet, and I don't want to dismiss their experience either.
Re: Question about a thread from yesterday...
(Anonymous) 2015-12-02 04:11 pm (UTC)(link)I realized after I posted that some of my wording might've come across kind of mean, so I'm sorry for that.
And I am ace actually (probably should've mentioned that in my comment!) but I still don't get it. I'm not aromantic, though, so maybe that's why?
To use your example, if I told someone my name was a shortened form/nickname because my full name was too long or complicated and so they called me by the name I told them the first time I met them, would I be bothered? No, because that's the name I gave them. If I wanted to be called by my full name, I should've told them that name, regardless of how complicated it is.
It's fucking LONELY to not being able to say "My boyfriend" and have it FIT. Have it truly be YOU and YOUR LIFE your talking about.
See, I just don't get that. I've had boyfriends and I've called them "my boyfriend" because that's what they were. I never felt the way you're describing, so I'm sorry if I'm saying the wrong things, but I just don't understand. I mean, I'm sure most people thought we were having sex, if they even put any thought into it at all, but that didn't bother me. If I and the other person are happy with the relationship, then it just really doesn't matter to me what other people think of it.
I'm really trying not to bite your head off here, but I'm feeling a bit sick at having to put this into words. I forget that many people don't know what it's like to not be able to express who they are on some of these basic levels - not because they don't know who they are, but because other people can't conceptualize it, and don't want to hear it, and because sometimes there isn't even a language to express it with.
Again, I'm sorry if I'm saying the wrong things or being hurtful, but the way you're describing it is just not something I've ever felt. To me, my sexuality is not my identity or even a huge part of it. So other people being able to conceptualize it is just not something I give a damn about. To me, it's important to be able to say, hey, this is a person I love and am in a relationship with, and this is what they mean to me, and in our culture, boyfriend/girlfriend conveys that. So what assumptions people will or will not make about my sex life are basically irrelevant to me. I mean, I don't see the relationship police going around saying "you have to sex x amount of times to be able to call each other boyfriend/girlfriend" so I don't feel like I'm using an inaccurate term or whatever. Even without sex, it's still a romantic relationship, so I don't see what's wrong with boyfriend/girlfriend.
some ace/aro people may be in common-law relationships where there is no romantic feeling. The way I understand it, the feeling between them would essentially be a feeling of very close friendship. However, it's perfectly understandable that they would want some other term to explain what they are to each other, as the word "friendship" would likely feel inadequate in conveying the extent of their practical (and perhaps emotional) commitment to each other.
Okay, I get what you're saying now. In that case, yeah, saying boyfriend or girlfriend would be weird, but I'd probably say "best friend". Or, like someone mentioned below, "platonic partner" maybe, if best friend didn't feel right.
I guess it's probably a difference of romantic/aromantic, and now I see that what you're describing seems like a non-romantic relationship, but from what some other people were saying, I thought they meant a non-sexual romantic relationship, so I was a little confused why they were so against using boyfriend/girlfriend for those relationships. But for a totally non-romantic relationship, I get why it'd be weird.
Re: Question about a thread from yesterday...
(Anonymous) 2015-12-02 10:47 pm (UTC)(link)Okay, good, because this is what I've been saying all along. I'm not sure if it's what other people are talking about, or if they're talking about some kind of romantic relationship, but I'm definitely not, and haven't been from the beginning. That's why I said that either term (friend or bf/gf) would feel wrong.
And I don't know, I guess for a romantic ace person, their relationship feels very similar to a "normal" bf/gf relationship. However, for me, as an aro/ace person, any relationships I have will never feel anything like that.
Again, I'm sorry if I'm saying the wrong things or being hurtful,
Thanks, and no, it's all good. Now that I've got some context and can see that you're someone who's willing to listen and consider, I'll chill. At first it seemed like you were just being dismissive, but now I see you were speaking with authority about your own Ace experience. :)
To me, my sexuality is not my identity or even a huge part of it.
Well, everyone's sexuality is a fairly big aspect of their life, when you get right down to it. Most of us end up being closer to (or at least spending more time with) one person, or a series of persons, than we are to anyone else in our lives, and that's a facet of our sexuality/romanticism. We also have kids or don't have kids, and that's another facet, albeit a predominantly practical one (Ace people can have kids, after all). Are we attracted to our friends? Do we want more? Are they attracted to us? Do they want more? Is that inconvenient or welcomed? Are we attractive to others or not? How do we feel about that? Are we uncomfortable, insecure, validated, confident? Do we dress to look good or to be overlooked? How do we feel about that? Should we shave more often? Should we lose weight? Is he/she attracted to someone else? Are we jealous? Will we lose him/her?
All that said, the amount of space sex/sexuality/romance/romanticism take up in most people's lives can be easily ignored, because it's the norm. "'What's water?' asked the fish."
I think what makes it all more visible to me is that I will forever be outside of that norm. Outside it in a far more complete and definitive way than you, because of my Aro status.
So no, my sexuality is not my identity, but it's as big a part of me as it is of anyone. The difference is that while other people get to overlook how big a part of them their sexuality/romanticism actually is, I don't get to, because the size of that part of me is the size of the part that's different and that can't be shared or held in common.
To use your example, if I told someone my name was a shortened form/nickname because my full name was too long or complicated
No, I mean if most of the people in your life went around calling you by a name you don't identify with at all. And sometimes they wonder why you don't respond when they call to you, and you're just like, "Oh...sorry, I guess I wasn't listening." You'd like to correct them, but it seems kind of hopeless to do so. That kind of thing.
Re: Question about a thread from yesterday...
(Anonymous) 2015-12-02 11:39 pm (UTC)(link)So when I talk about the part sex and sexuality plays in people's lives, I'm also including romance in that as well. So when I make the assertion (which maybe it wasn't my place to make) that I'm more completely on the outside of this than you are, what I mean is that a romantic Ace person can still participate in a lot of the things that, for me, fall under that conjoined umbrella of sexualityromance.
In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think that from your perspective, you're right that sex isn't such a big thing. If you extricate sex and romance, the bulk of what's there is probably romance. But since to me, romance is sexual, that makes sex a much bigger part of the equation.
Re: Question about a thread from yesterday...
(Anonymous) 2015-12-03 01:01 am (UTC)(link)I'm not gonna go into detail because I have to leave for work in a couple minutes and you might not see this anyway since it's so late, but thanks for your comments! It's been really interesting to see things from someone else's perspective!