fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #3271 ]

Note: Wow this became long. Sorry, I started typing and boom.

I kind of agree secret!OP. To be honest Haikyuu!! fandom really freaks me out with Kuroo/Tsukishima, especially how they perceive the relationship from a fanon perspective. Like whenever I see him paired with Kenma fans have him acting like a normal high school boy, he acts closer to his canon personality, he's light-hearted and fun etc, but whenever he's paired off with Tsukishima fans do this odd fucking...thing I can't even explain it, but like Kuroo becomes this stalker-lite, loping seme lothario on the prowl (and we're not talking a/b/o fic here lol), like they age Kuroo up and oversexualize him to the max or something, and it's something I haven't seen with literally any other Haikyuu!! character, it's so odd and
unless you take notice of it it's kind of hard to describe. It's like...here, fanart pictures describe it better.

http://p2.i.ntere.st/15bb93158f613b45cd96c09eedd284c4_480.jpg
Tsukishima and Yamaguchi? Cute high school boys.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvmGbNNIcAAeiIc.jpg
Kuroo and Kenma? Cute high school boys.

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xpf1/t51.2885-

15/e15/10611155_424339984407697_1190428836_n.jpg
Kuroo and Tsukishima? ....Something else entirely.

It's just this strange trend I've noticed. But yeah, considering the fact that Kuroo and Tsukishima barely interact and it's once in the entire series so far, I think it's pretty damn obvious why people are shipping them. It's because they're weirdly oversexualizing Kuroo, and
weirdly oversexualizing Tsukki with a huge heaping of major ukification (seriously I've seen people do bottom!Tsukki without turning him into a major uke stereotype, it can be done people so why do you keep doing this?), and poor Yamaguchi is considered "too plain" to ship, even
though that relationship makes the most sense shipping wise, canon wise, etc. Also, isn't Kuroo pretty canonly like obsessed with Kenma? Like all I remember is thinking Kuroo acted like a puppy dog with how AMAZING Kenma was and THIS and THAT about Kenma.

Eh, I mean I'm sure I'll be alone here on this but I get ya OP, and I agree completely with the overall tone of your secret too, even though I went off on a Haikyuu!!-specific tangent. I'm not completely done with One Punch Man yet and I've stayed out of the fandom so I can't really comment on that part yet.

Agreed. There is a lot of massive oversexualisation in the Haikyuu!! fandom in general but especially when it comes to Kuroo. People have this weird idea that he's this kind of super experienced, kinky, suave sex god type when in canon, he's just a high school kid (who also is a huge dork).

I think the reason Kuroo/Tsukki is so extremely popular is because all fandom is and was a sucker for the "I'm annoyed by you so I totally want to fuck your brains out" dynamic. Super close attached-at-the-hip childhood friends (with matching bags and all) just can't win against that, I guess - too boring or something.

Yamaguchi gets the "he is completely traumatised, depressed, suicidal and self-harms" treatment all the fucking time. It's ... ugh. He also gets shipped with Yachi a lot lately, which in itself... ship and let ship, right, but people act like it's canon (and I suspect a lot of them do it so they have a way cleared for their Kuroo/Tsukki shipping).

But eh, I have given up reading fic and actively following the fandom when it comes to Haiykuu!! anyway, so whatever.

Agreed. There is a lot of massive oversexualisation in the Haikyuu!! fandom in general but especially when it comes to Kuroo. People have this weird idea that he's this kind of super experienced, kinky, suave sex god type when in canon, he's just a high school kid (who also is a huge dork).

THANK YOU. Jesus fuck I thought I was the only person who saw this and was extremely bothered by it. It happens a little bit in the Kuroo/Kenma fandom too but not nearly as much as outside of it. Whether he's being shipped with Daichi, Tsukki, whatever, it's like people act like Kuroo is about 5 years older than he is, and has fucked half the populace. I see shit on tumblr like "I bet Kuroo is a champion ass eater" like...jesus christ the poor guy is probably still figuring out how to jerk off! He's such a dorky guy though, why do people feel the need to do this!? That is part of his charm. I fell in love with him when he was goofily fanboying about Kenma.

I think the reason Kuroo/Tsukki is so extremely popular is because all fandom is and was a sucker for the "I'm annoyed by you so I totally want to fuck your brains out" dynamic. Super close attached-at-the-hip childhood friends (with matching bags and all) just can't win against that, I guess - too boring or something.

I mean...I guess I could give this pairing a shred of validity if this was something that went on constantly, but they barely interact outside of one time. There is no hints that the two even speak to one another. Tsukishima just brushed Kuroo off coldly, and that was that. It's not even the sort of "I'm annoyed by you so I wanna fuck you" dynamic that say, Hinata and Kageyama have where they're constantly together, bickering and learning and growing together.

What bugs me too is that the whole "too boring" thing doesn't even fly with Tsukishima and Yamaguchi. They're best friends, yes, but they have a dynamic that is obviously very different than your usual "best friend" dynamic. Tsukishima being an unapologetic bully, Yamaguchi following suit (and it being pretty obvious he does it mainly for points with Tsukishima, he wants to impress him), like there is definitely plenty of problems. Hell, it even comes to a boil at one point in the manga! They're not...say, Makoto/Haru levels of "two people one body" synergy or anything, and going from friends to lovers between those two is something I imagine filled with awkward goodness that could span novel-length fics. :P

Yamaguchi gets the "he is completely traumatised, depressed, suicidal and self-harms" treatment all the fucking time. It's ... ugh. He also gets shipped with Yachi a lot lately, which in itself... ship and let ship, right, but people act like it's canon (and I suspect a lot of them do it so they have a way cleared for their Kuroo/Tsukki shipping).

Oh god don't get me started on the weird shit they do to Yamaguchi. I think it's obvious in canon he has self-esteem issues, he hates his freckles, etc, but he's still well within normal teenage boy levels of angst. People start getting into emo level "CRAWLING IN MY SKIN" bullshit in fanworks with Yamaguchi. It's like they misinterpreted Yamaguchi's supposed-to-be-relatable struggles entirely. And then what is worse, I see people act like Tsukishima and Yamaguchi would be "unhealthy" (lmfao concern trolling much?) because of this completely made-up psychosis they give Yamaguchi.

Aaand yeah the whole Yamaguchi/Yachi thing, I'll be the first to admit the people pushing that shit the hardest are Kuroo/Tsukki shippers. (What kind of gets me is like...even if he were dating her...Tsukishima barely acknowledges that Kuroo is alive and Kuroo is pretty obviously glued to Kenma's hip anyway, so it's like...congratulations for nothing? :/) Actually it kind of irritates me because I could probably get into Yamaguchi/Yachi sometime (although I'll admit I'm more into the femmeslash with Yachi, she's just super cute over Kiyoko), but when literally 99% of the people shipping it are hardcore Kuroo/Tsukki shippers I'm just turned off entirely.

I'll admit I'm just freely bitching right now, but secret!OP unleashed the floodgates over something that has really been irritating me about Haikyuu!! fandom.

The whole Haiykuu!! fandom is full of "durrhurrhurr they are all so KINKY! Pro level BDSM kings! LOL" and I'm just sitting there going "I guess this is the first time I kinda don't want all that much smut in a fandom..." - it's all so wildly out of character.
(But yeah, I've given up trying to read anything in this fandom for a reason... Just yesterday, I thought "Hey, I could try again finding a fic I like" and then I gave up frustrated after digging through 15 pages of things I definitely didn't want to read. And that was after filtering out most of the things I didn't like.)

Kuroo is such a sweetheart when it comes to Kenma! He's always so concerned for him and tries to motivate him and everything. I think them being so close is one of the reasons a suspiciously large amount of people who ~just happen to be~ Kuroo/Tsukki or Kuroo/Daichi shippers obsess about Kenma being asexual/aromantic so much.

I absolutely agree re: Kuroo and Tsukki's interactions. People have really stuck to the whole training camp arc a lot when it comes to the base for that ship - but that's what I don't get. Relationship- and character-interaction-wise, the most defining moment in that arc was the meltdown between Tsukki and Yama, imo. Not the "I train with you and tease you a bit because that's what I do" Kuroo was doing to Tsukki. Sometimes it feels like people have read a very different manga than I have...

Yamaguchi and Tsukki and such an interesting pair to me (friends and pairing both) because yes, at the very beginning it does look like it's a very unequal relationship with Yamaguchi just tagging behind and Tsukki not caring, but that theory simply doesn't hold up. At the very latest, once you get to the flashbacks to when they were still younger, it's pretty obvious that it's not even remotely a onsided, unhealthy relationship.

But I find it generally amazing who terribly wrong a lot of people get the characters' personalities in the Haikyuu!! fandom.

I can't ever ship Yamaguchi/Yachi because Yama/Tsukki is my absolute OTP and I really love Yachi and Kiyoko together. (So it's the same reason I couldn't ever ship Kuroo/Tsukki. Both Kuroo/Tsukki and Yama/Yachi break up three of my OTPs at once. That's not good OTL.) I mean, I get it why Yama/Yachi is a popular ship now but the way a lot of people suddenly went "IT'S TOTALLY CANON and if you don't ship it you're stupid" was pretty annoying.

I'm totally okay with your bitching haha! I'll just say that if you reply, it'll be a while until I can reply back. Need to sleeeep.

The whole Haiykuu!! fandom is full of "durrhurrhurr they are all so KINKY! Pro level BDSM kings! LOL" and I'm just sitting there going "I guess this is the first time I kinda don't want all that much smut in a fandom..." - it's all so wildly out of character.

To be honest I'm perfectly okay with smut in this fandom, as they are at an age when, especially for young guys who are gay/bi/pan/whatever you happen to headcanon them as, sexual things start happening. I mean, seriously imagine in the case of TsukkiYama, they presumably walk home together every day, they're literally velcroed to one another, if they were going out that would be some heavy UST to deal with, especially because I can't imagine them abstaining from kissing and making out and stuff.

But that's mainly why I feel like the majority of this fic should be like first time/figuring shit out kinds of fic. The only couple I could kind of buy being together for a long time is Oikawa and Iwaizumi, because they already fight like an old married couple (a physically abusive one? :P), so they sometimes get a pass, but honestly most of the smut I see in this fandom is just so OOC because it's like fandom forgot entirely that these are high school boys. They're not blowjob masters or champion ass eaters or fuck machines, they're awkward and horny and (fandom wise at least) in love for the first time so write them that way darnit! D:

Kuroo is such a sweetheart when it comes to Kenma! He's always so concerned for him and tries to motivate him and everything. I think them being so close is one of the reasons a suspiciously large amount of people who ~just happen to be~ Kuroo/Tsukki or Kuroo/Daichi shippers obsess about Kenma being asexual/aromantic so much.

This drives me fucking insane too. In what universe does Kenma give off an "asexual/aromantic" vibe? I'm kind of personally offended by that characterization, because it seems as if people are saying that if you aren't a stereotypical sex-crazed high school guy that you must not have any feelings about that whatsoever. And even asexual people will sometimes have sex with the people they love, so it's not like that would stop them. I feel so frustrated in this fandom because all the characterizations in fanon are so one-note. Kenma obsessed with videogames and not into competitive sports? Somehow we'll make a huge leap of logic and say he's aromantic/asexual! Kuroo has a sly grin and gels his hair? We'll make a huge leap of logic and say Kuroo is an experienced sex god! Yamaguchi feels bad about himself because he lags behind his peers? He's a self-destructive cutter with suicidal depression now! Nishinoya gets bruises during practice and doesn't make a big deal about him? He's got masochistic tendencies in bed! (This one absolutely fucking floors me, especially with how freaking gentle I imagine Asahi would be, I can't see Asahi lifting a finger to hurt a fly.)

ARGHHHHHH. So much of this fandom sends me straight up the wall.

I absolutely agree re: Kuroo and Tsukki's interactions. People have really stuck to the whole training camp arc a lot when it comes to the base for that ship - but that's what I don't get. Relationship- and character-interaction-wise, the most defining moment in that arc was the meltdown between Tsukki and Yama, imo. Not the "I train with you and tease you a bit because that's what I do" Kuroo was doing to Tsukki. Sometimes it feels like people have read a very different manga than I have...

Mmmmhmmm. I feel like people took literally one interaction (a fucking brief one at that!) and just ran the hell away with it, for basically all the reasons that the secret!OP is stating. It's so obvious it's because people are enjoying the incorrect "sex god Kuroo" thing, and because they want to see Tsukki get plowed and for some reason Yamaguchi is unable to do it (in reality it's because "he's too ugly to do it, he doesn't fit the perfect seme archetype!"). (Come on, there are so many interesting ways to go with that too between Yamaguchi and Tsukki! Is Tsukki the one that wants it? Is Yamaguchi the one who wants it? Is it a switch from their normal roles? Who asks for it?)

Yamaguchi and Tsukki and such an interesting pair to me (friends and pairing both) because yes, at the very beginning it does look like it's a very unequal relationship with Yamaguchi just tagging behind and Tsukki not caring, but that theory simply doesn't hold up. At the very latest, once you get to the flashbacks to when they were still younger, it's pretty obvious that it's not even remotely a onsided, unhealthy relationship.

Exactly. Their relationship has a lot of unexpected layers to it, which fascinates me. I think it's pretty clear by now in the canon that Tsukishima gravitates to Yamaguchi as well, and it's not nearly the unhealthy, unequal thing that people have tried to make it out to be. (And again, I didn't think it ever was unhealthy, besides the fact that Tsukishima and by extension Yamaguchi, have some issues with bullying the other guys, but that was clearly both of them doing it.)

But I find it generally amazing who terribly wrong a lot of people get the characters' personalities in the Haikyuu!! fandom.

Yup. Same here. It just really floored me some of the weird fucking pairings that ended up becoming popular. For instance, where the hell did Kuroo/Daichi come from? Maybe I'm drawing a big ol blank but I honestly can't for the life of me think about where there was any interaction.

I can't ever ship Yamaguchi/Yachi because Yama/Tsukki is my absolute OTP and I really love Yachi and Kiyoko together. (So it's the same reason I couldn't ever ship Kuroo/Tsukki. Both Kuroo/Tsukki and Yama/Yachi break up three of my OTPs at once. That's not good OTL.) I mean, I get it why Yama/Yachi is a popular ship now but the way a lot of people suddenly went "IT'S TOTALLY CANON and if you don't ship it you're stupid" was pretty annoying.

Same here. I can see where the pairing might be cute to some, but I don't really personally get into it. It might have been different if I were able to look at it without the tumblr-war goggles and the spectre of Kuroo/Tsukki looming in the background because of how obvious the fans were being, but it would never be something I ship. But yeah, it would break up my Tsukki/Yama, Kuroo/Kenma, Kiyoko/Yachi groove way too much, and I just don't feel like it's a solid ship anyway. There is certainly nothing to declare it "canon". (Wtf, Tumblr actually fell for a translation hoax awhile back that declared Tsukishima and Yamaguchi had always been dating in a supposed "Word Of God" interview, and people took that bait hook, line and sinker, so obviously these other pairings don't have much substance to them. :P)

I'm totally okay with your bitching haha! I'll just say that if you reply, it'll be a while until I can reply back. Need to sleeeep.

No problem! I'll keep checking back for a reply into tomorrow. :)

To be honest I'm perfectly okay with smut in this fandom(...)

I don't have anything against smut in the fandom in general, but more with what you described - this kind of OOC super sex savvy kinkiness of high school kids. But a lot of people also completely ignore the setting (either with AUs or conveniently forgetting/ignoring the actual setting. I could go on a tangent about how so many authors in this fandom keep pretending that Japanese high school boys do all the same things American high school girls do - like listening to Tailor Swift the whole day, hang out on tumblr etc. but that is another thing entirely.)

This drives me fucking insane too. In what universe does Kenma give off an "asexual/aromantic" vibe? I'm kind of personally offended by that characterization, because it seems as if people are saying that if you aren't a stereotypical sex-crazed high school guy that you must not have any feelings about that whatsoever.(...)

I get having a certain headcanon, but that's the thing with a lot of headcanons these days: a) they're mostly based on already annoying stereotypes and only enforce them more than they already are and b)they get treated as fact as soon as they reach a certain popularity. It's the same with the Haikyuu!! trans headcanons that go around: The characters that get the trans treatment are almost always the ones with the gentler/meeker personality and the more "feminine" or cute looks. Like Suga, Kenma and Yamaguchi. But that's also another can of worms.

Come on, there are so many interesting ways to go with that too between Yamaguchi and Tsukki! Is Tsukki the one that wants it? Is Yamaguchi the one who wants it? Is it a switch from their normal roles? Who asks for it?

Exactly! There is a lot of variation possible because on one hand, we have Tsukki, who seems all cool and stand-off-ish but has issues with being passionate about things and on the other hand we have Yamaguchi, who is meeker at first glance and very much about pleasing Tsukki but is definitely able to put his foot down when he wants to. It's such an interesting, multilayered dynamic!

Re: Kuroo/Daichi - I guess it probably was one of those things where a BNF liked that ship and people kinda jumped on the bandwagon.

Yama/Yachi is about as canon as Tanaka or Noya/Kiyoko (or... just about half of the whole cast/Kiyoko, really) or Hinata/Yachi. Even if there is a bit of a crush going on, as long as it's not 100 % in a relationship canon by word of god, it's about as "canon" as any other ship.

Well Yamaguchi and Yachi is at least half canon. He has a crush on her, though it's a lot more obvious in novels and side-stories than in the actual manga.

Like, when she was feeling insecure about her looks and he said she was beautiful in her own way and Takeda said he'd probably be the first guy to get married. Or how he's always getting flustered around her like when Yachi pointing out their height difference and he started blushing.

YamaYachi and DaiYui are the only ships that have canon crushes involved, so people shipping them is not that unusual.

>DaiYui

Lol like no one ships them though, it's only Yamaguchi and Yachi that people get into this whole "IT'S CANON ~~so we're free to ship KurooTsukki~~" deal. Pretty universally the fandom ships Daichi with Sugawara as the OTP.

I understand what you're saying, and I do see where Yamaguchi might have a crush on Yachi (I don't think the evidence is nearly as overwhelming as tumblr makes it seem though), but for the purposes of the conversation this is more how people are using this ship to sort of "get rid of" a ship that they feel is in the way of their ship. It happened in Free! fandom when people tried to pair off Makoto with other people like Sousuke even though they haven't interacted for more than a second or two, etc. It's a pretty obvious trend.

Eh, if those things make it "half canon", Kiyoko/half the team and Hinata/Yachi would be just as "half canon".

I'm not saying he doesn't have a little crush on her.
But it's not any more "canon" than the crushes a lot of the other guys have on some of the manager girls. And the way a lot of people went around using this particular "canon" ship as a basis to passive aggressively bash the Yama/Tsukki ship (as in "Yama/Yachi is canon now, your ship is invalid lol") was pretty damn annoying.

Edited (oh wow autocorrect you really hate me) 2015-12-19 11:56 (UTC)

Wait where's the half canon in Hinata/Yachi? Is it in the side manga or novel? The closest crush-like thing I remember in the manga/anime was Yachi thinking Hinata running with her was "like being in a shoujo manga."

Ah, my bad. I got a bit carried away (and was tired), so I half responded to things you(? or airt) said and half to what I'm used to seeing as arguments - see, I kind of thought about the way people kept going "Yamaguchi talks to Yachi a lot; yet another hint that it's totally canon" when Hinata really spends much more time with her (and keeps telling her how amazing she is - which is in regards to her studying techniques and all, but while people are so bent on mis- or overinterpreting certain things....)

Edited 2015-12-19 16:25 (UTC)

Oh, thanks! That makes sense, haha.

I think the reason Kuroo/Tsukki is so extremely popular is because all fandom is and was a sucker for the "I'm annoyed by you so I totally want to fuck your brains out" dynamic. Super close attached-at-the-hip childhood friends (with matching bags and all) just can't win against that, I guess - too boring or something.

Tell that to HaruRin vs. MakoHaru lol

(For the record I find the childhood friends dynamic boring too and the director even says haru and Rin are the main characters and center of the story but I guess fandom prefers size kink over characterization)

I admit that I was a bit surprised about the vast popularity of Mako/Haru over Rin/Haru because I was used to the rival ships getting much more attention than the childhood friend ships. I distinctly remember finding is unusual that so many people in the Free fandom apparently had a different preference.

But I think it's difficult to compare these two shows in terms of ships, at least on the childhood friends side - Tsukishima and Yamaguchi have a pretty different dynamic than Mako and Haru.

Kuroo and Oikawa suffer the most when it comes to being portrayed as sex crazed casanova's in fandom. Yeah, they are both charismatic but they are equally dorky and definitely not as smooth or horny as fandom portrays them to be.

I feel like most haikyuu ships capture the cute, awkward, and funny personalities of the characters very well... but Oikawa and Kuroo ships are always way more sexualized for no good reason.

I don't understand why Oikawa is always portrayed like that. For lack of a better word he's the fandom slut. I always pictured him being a complete dork and probably fucking things up, especially in a relationship with someone like Iwaizumi. I picture him accidentally making Iwaizumi pissed off nearly as often as he manages to placate Iwaizumi into being docile enough for romantic/sexual stuff. It's pretty obvious his whole smooth, "I have a fanclub" persona is supposed to be something that is only skin deep, and underneath there is someone who is insecure, competitive to a negative degree at points, and someone who needs constant praise. I have no idea how people read "slut" out of that though.

Oh yeah, another thing is I hate how uke-fied (can't think of a better term) Tsukki is when he is paired with Kuroo/Bokuto/Akaashi.

Tsukki is the most sarcastic and deadpan character in the entire series. I can't see him shy, shivering, and crying because of anyone. If anything he'd just walk away or make some snide remark of Kuroo or anyone tried to be smooth with him. Like how he actually behaves in canon.

Haha we've all been using "uke-fied" in this conversation anyway, it makes sense even if it's an awkward word. I agree completely. It makes absolutely no sense, but it's pretty obvious that's why a large portion of the fandom ships Tsukki with Kuroo/Bokuto/Akaashi. There's this unspoken sense of "they're big enough to manhandle him" which I find kind of gross.

You kind of hit on what my big issue with KurooTsukki/Bokuto/Akaashi (etc) is: it's so fucking OOC. Tsukishima is a pretty character, yes, we get that, but his personality is so cold and acerbic, like no way in hell is he going to fall for another high school boy's ridiculous attempt at being "suave".

(Part of why he works so well with Yamaguchi anyway is because Yamaguchi's a nerd, and Tsukki is fine with that. Like no way in hell would Yamaguchi try and put the moves on Tsukki, it would probably be a ton of fumbling until Tsukki took pity on him.)

[ SECRET POST #3271 ]

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