Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2015-12-18 06:42 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2015-12-18 06:42 pm
[ SECRET POST #3271 ]
⌈ Secret Post #3271 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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[Mysterious Universe Podcast]
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[Elias Ericson]
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[Danny Phantom]
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11. [SPOILERS for Jessica Jones]
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12. [SPOILERS for Homestuck]
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13. [SPOILERS for transformers: more than meets the eye #47]
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14. [WARNING for rape]
Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #467.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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Regina's redemption story is a mess, but at the very least she is repentant. While the Graham situation hasn't been brought up as far as I remember, I am more willing to believe that it is because the writers aren't really aware that they wrote her as a rapist -rather than just a murderer- than that it is because THAT's the one crime she doesn't regret.
Kilgrave, on the other hand, doesn't even admit that what he does is wrong and is not willing to stop at all. Not only that, but HIS writers are pretty aware that what he does is rape, so on one hand we have someone who was written as a rapist by accident (Seriously, the ammount of writers that don't realize that mind control is a form of rape is staggering) but is regretful and remorseful of all her evil actions, and on the other we have someone who is written as an unrepentant rapist who is not remorseful.
And thus, it is easier to sympathize with Regina than with Kilgrave.
(not only that, I really scoff at the idea that Regina gets off easily compared to a man. She hasn't done HALF the stuff that Rumple has done in the series, and yet... Regina is far more hated in fandom than he is)
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(Anonymous) 2015-12-19 03:24 am (UTC)(link)Which is funny since she's a rapist and he isn't.
And she's a child abuser and he isn't.
And she has a body count in the thousands compared to his dozen or so.
But tell me again how Rumple is so much worse.
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Rumple's body count is in the thousands too. AS he is the Dark One and he is far older than Regina and he was feared precisely because he killed people for no apparent reason.
And funnily, I like him. Except for the annoying way in which the writers keep making him make the exact same mistakes he did every single time.
He might not be a rapist (and sorry, I have to add the "might" as there's a long, long time of his story that we don't know about) but...
He is a child abuser. There's a reason why Balefire ran away to a world without magic. Yes, Rumple loved him, but that didn't make the way in which he raised him that included isolating him from EVERYONE in town and killing his nannies every single time they did something Rumple disagreed with.
Oh, and not only that but you have to remember that everything REgina did? Was because she was taught and manipulated by Rumple and Cora. And all the evil Cora did? Was because she was taught by Rumple. So, basically, if RUMPLE hadn't been manipulating Regina from the day she was born? She wouldn't have become the Evil Queen.
More important than that, Regina has shown that she wants to redeeem herself and changed her ways. Rumple hasn't. He had a great redempiton arc up to season 3, but unfortunately the writers are too in love with the Status Quo and with Robert playing the bad guy, so he ends up being unrepentant and still evil.
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(Anonymous) 2015-12-19 06:03 am (UTC)(link)Look, I'm not arguing that he wasn't an abusive father. He was. He was also cursed. Regina doesn't have that luxury. She CHOSE to abuse Henry for four seasons and kill a hell of a lot of other kids. She chose to murder thousands of people. She chose to rape Graham.
Your argument of "Well, we don't know what all Rumple did. Maybe he did lots of horrible things we don't know about!" doesn't hold water. If it didn't happen on the show, it didn't happen. If it's later revealed that he's a rapist with a body count of thousands than I'll rethink my position that he's worse than Regina. Right now? Nope. Based solely on what we've seen in canon, she's a hell of a lot worse than he is.
But we agree on one thing. The poor writing it negatively impacting the characters at this point. Neither of them can be entirely held accountable simply because they're controlled by unimaginative writers who can't figure out what to do with them beyond the basics. Therefore, Regina continues to be a whiny sociopath and Rumple has become a cardboard villain.
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Rumple is on record as to say that he manipulated EVERYONE so that Regina would end up using his curse to take him to the world where Bale was. So yeah, that level of manipulation robs a person of their freedom to choose a different path (No, it wasn't as obvious as Regina controlling Graham, but it was equally insidious and he didn't only do it to her. He did it to everyone in the enchanted forest for generations). And again, I am not saying that Regina is a poor victim that didn't do anything. I am saying that the reason why people are more sympathetic to her is because she, unlike Rumple (Who, btw, choose to remian cursed more than once. And has, in fact, thrown away cures for his curse, all the way back since Belle kissed him for the first time) is shown to be remorseful.
It doesn't mean that she is not guilty of what she did. She, and she alone is guilty of what she did to Graham. She still wouldn't have had the means (and perhaps not even the drive) to do it had Cora not been an abusive mother, and Rumple a manipulative dick. But the fact that she's remorseful means that she is repentant, and is trying to change. And because of THAT, she is a lot more sympathetic than other villians.
(I do wonder about your count of seasonal abuse towards Henry. Because I think she only gaslighted him for a season, and then abused him all the way through season 2. But from season 3 onwards, she has changed her attitude towards him a lot)
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(Anonymous) 2015-12-20 06:33 pm (UTC)(link)Okay, but how does that make someone who DOES sympathize with Kilgrave MORE of a "rape apologist" than someone who sympathizes with Regina? (Particularly since, from what I've seen, Kilgrave's sympathizers don't go around saying shit like "It wasn't rape!" "It was one instance of the writers fucking up so we can ignore it!" "Omg stop talking about Graham it wasn't really rape we're meant to ignore that", etc, etc)
The secret wasn't talking about why it's easier to sympathize with Regina over Kilgrave, it was talking about why it's "more okay" to sympathize with her over him, and why those who DO sympathize with him get blasted with the "rape apologist" label whereas Regina's followers get much more of a pass on that. And I have to admit I'm really curious about the same thing when, from all the comments here, it seems like the excuse boils down to "it's easier to ignore/overlook in Regina's case".