[ SECRET POST #3301 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3301 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 064 secrets from Secret Submission Post #472.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

04. http://i.imgur.com/7k4MGyS.jpg

[morieris]

I feel the same way. At the very least it did help me find other books written by more credible people...former geisha, old memoirs, people who have actually studied the history.

[meganbmoore]

Yeah. I was going to say that the only reason this book's (and the movie's) existence can be justified is because Mineko Iwasaki most likely wouldn't have written her memoirs without it, and Sayo Masuda's memoir probably never would have been released in English.

Other than that, it should be wiped from existence.

[kallanda_lee]

I had no idea she sued him. That does put it in a different light for me.

[(Anonymous)]

Read her memoirs, she briefly covers it and how the geisha community shunned her over it ( since she specifically asked not to be named at all in association with the book, especially not as a source due to a tradition of keeping quiet about the profession. But then he went and specifically named her in the acknowledgements as a major source).

[(Anonymous)]

Oh yes, I heard about it when the book got popular. She regretted allowing Golden to interview her, because they agreed he'd keep her name confidential... and he didn't. There were negative repercussions for her because he basically took bits and pieces of her actual life and used it in his book, but made them seem worse than they were. She particularly objected to the idea of being a geisha as prostitution. He made up the whole virgin auction thing, apparently. She got death threats over the whole controversy.

If you want to read more about her:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineko_Iwasaki

[(Anonymous)]

OP, here's a little lesson about Arthur Golding. The woman he actually interviewed about geiko/geisha life and customs in that specific period of Japan? Her name was Mineko Iwasaki.

She actually wrote her OWN book, to clear up the majority of Golding's inaccuracies. I had no idea until I read this review: https://loudbookishtype.wordpress.com/2013/07/26/geisha-a-life-by-mineko-iwasaki-translated-by-rande-brown/ and then I got the book ASAP.

It's a fantastic read. Link! (http://www.bookdepository.com/Geish-Randee-Brown-Mineko-Iwasaki-Rande-Brown/9780743444293)

[morieris]

It really is. I need to find my copy, I haven't read it in a while.

[(Anonymous)]

OP knows about the lawsuit. Preeeeetty sure they already know all that, though it's still interesting to those of us who don't. :)

[(Anonymous)]

To be honest, the only real problem I have with this book is the author's attempt to market it as credible and the memoirs of a real geisha, right down to crediting the woman he interviewed. Which she definitely did not want him to do.

As generic pseudo-historical fiction, it's fine. While it was certainly sensual, I don't think it claimed geisha were whores or sex was all they did (and, sexual exchange DID actually happen, even if unofficially, so there's that). While it certainly fawned over the mystique of geisha, it's no worse than works that fawn over the "honorable" samurai and such. I reckon it's pretty harmless overall, minus what the aforementioned unintentionally muddying the real geisha's reputation.

[(Anonymous)]

He made up the auction of Sayuri's virginity, and the custom of virgin auctions. That's kind of a major plot point. Geishas aren't prostitutes. As for being harmless, the woman whose story he "borrowed" for his novel got threats because of his disclosing her identity, so...

[(Anonymous)]

"While it certainly fawned over the mystique of geisha, it's no worse than works that fawn over the "honorable" samurai and such."

Uh, what? Books that fawn over the samurai mystique inflate their roles as stoic warriors with an iron clad sense of honor. Memoirs of a Geisha made geisha out to be super-sexualized hookers who are sold into sexual slavery. Can you honestly not see the difference in those two portrayals?


"I reckon it's pretty harmless overall, minus what the aforementioned unintentionally muddying the real geisha's reputation."

It did more than muddy her reputation. When she received death threats in response to Golden's clumsy outing, that was no joke.

[(Anonymous)]

keeping quiet about the profession is a point for the Geisha so I'm not sure I understand how people here can be sure that he lied about all their traditions, if geisha themselves would never write that stuff in biographies with their names on them, anyway. In fact, the only hints about them having sexual encounters with their clients seem to mostly come from the clients rather than geisha making interviews. It seems to me that she was more angry about him putting her name on the book (that apparently was a mistake by the editor) and the fact she was revealed being the one who masbe told him such details no one should talk about. Of course, regardless if what he narrated in the book is real or not, she would never write that in her book.
I think it's explained in the novel, though, that geisha are not really prostitutes. Also, part of what it decipts might be true for some geishas of that time period, but not them all or geisha universally.


If you read his book and you believe you are reading the biography of a real geisha, well, this means the author wins in his narrative intent. This doesn't mean he is claiming that the book is written by a geisha, it just means he is making the fictional character he created real to you and believable even if you both know it's fiction and not everything said there is true. This is something people didn't get about the davinci code either.
There are essays and 'historical' books about geishas that probably write a lot of bs passing them as facts, but people seem to be more concerned about whatever fanfictions are 100% accurate about everything.

[(Anonymous)]

That book is infuriating in so many ways. And it's everywhere.

Aside from IWASAKI Mineko's book (which is a helpful corrective), it's also worth reading Liza Dalby's book Geisha. She's an American anthropologist who was trained as a geisha in Japan (at the time, the only non-Japanese woman to do so), and her portrait of the geisha life is insightful and sympathetic.

[(Anonymous)]

I feel the same way too. I hate the film adaptation as well. Hollywood decided to cast Chinese actors in the roles and only 2/3 of the cast were actually Japanese. How hard is it to find Japanese actors inside and outside of Hollywood? I could imagine Keiko Kitagawa or Koyuki Kato in the role as Chiyo.

[(Anonymous)]

IIRC, the argument at the time was that for a movie that big, that hoped to make money in a western market, they wanted actors westerners would recognize. That's not a large group of actors, quite frankly. It's not a lack of Japanese actors, it's the belief that white people won't watch a movie about unknown foreigners and that most of them 1) can't tell the difference between Chinese and Japanese or 2) won't care. It's tied to the fact that studios in general are reluctant to cast relative unknowns, it's seen as risky.

[(Anonymous)]

According to Wikipedia it actually was hard to find Japanese actors for the roles, as they just didn't turn up. And the Chinese actresses they did cast were apparently very popular in Japan. Like Tom Hiddleston being cast as an American, basically.

[(Anonymous)]

I love that book. It scratches the same itch as regency romance novels and is about as historically accurate.

I'm sorry people seem to think it's the written truth, though. That must be obnoxious.

[(Anonymous)]

I read the book a long time ago and genuinely liked it as a historical fiction, so I was extremely disappointed when I read Iwasaki's book and learned about what really happened. It completely soured the book for me and I just can't enjoy it anymore. I did read a few other books about geishas (Liza Dalby's is awesome!), so at least the novel introduced me to that world. It's really obnoxious that everyone thinks geishas are high class prostitutes thanks to the book and movie. No one believes me when I tell them that's not really the case because they saw it in the movies and it's not like movies ever lie, right?

[(Anonymous)]

I, too, enjoyed the book and was disappointed to find out it wasn't very historically accurate-- and worse, that it actually resulted in a defamation lawsuit. Now I think the author is a bit of a jerk, but it was still a compelling piece of writing. I'd be happy to read another piece of historical fiction from him if he did more research and was more sensitive about what liberties he took with facts.

[(Anonymous)]

This shouldn't have to be a secret. I agree with you so much OP

[iggy]

This should not need to be a secret, OP.

I did enjoy the book back when I first read it (around 2000 I think?), but when I found out what actually went into it and how inaccurate it was, I was pretty upset.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, it's not one of my favorite books.

[diet_poison]

No, that actually does sound pretty gross.

Did she win the lawsuit?

[(Anonymous)]

On the plus side, Geisha of Gion is a fantastic book. I agree Memoirs was total old man fantasy though.