[ SECRET POST #3336 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3336 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 059 secrets from Secret Submission Post #477.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[iggy]

Christmas did not start out as a Pagan holiday.

[dethtoll]

Then tell the class what it started out as then.

[iggy]

It started out as a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, on December 25th.

That Christmas celebrations brought in Pagan elements is true, but that Christmas began as a Pagan holiday is not.

[dethtoll]

What? Wait, you're basing your argument on the date the holiday falls on? That's a non-starter.

Assuming Jesus was actually real, nobody actually knows when he was born. The likely explanation (though some disagree) for December 25 being the chosen date was because that happened to be the date of a Roman festival in worship of Sol Invictus. Winter solstice festivals like that one were popular at the time, so naturally they got incorporated.

You're being overly literal here. If you want to argue that Christmas didn't exist until the Christians invented it, then technically Christmas didn't exist until 1038 at the earliest when the Old English word Crīstesmæsse was first recorded.

[iggy]

The assignment of the date as December 25th predated Sol Invictus by almost one hundred years. Hippolytus of Rome decided that Jesus was born on December 25th because his date of death was generally accepted as March 25th, and there was a Jewish tradition stating that righteous men died on the date they were conceived.

In fact it's believed by many that Sol Invictus may have been created as a Pagan ALTERNATIVE to the Roman Christian significance of the 25th of December.

Either way, it's a fact that 12/25 as the designation of Jesus's birth, thus the obvious choice for day of celebration, predates Sol Invictus.

[dethtoll]

Sol Invictus was just a reformation of a more ancient form of sun worship, though, with perhaps some influence from the cult of Elagabalus.

All this is besides the point in that you're operating on an overly narrow and literal version of Christmas history. By your rigid standards for what constitutes "Christmas," I could argue the holiday didn't technically start until the 1930s when Coca-Cola invented the modern version of Santa. It's a ridiculous, stupid argument, sure, but so is pretending that Christmas was invented out of whole cloth with no basis in pre-existing winter festivals.

[iggy]

I'm talking about Christmas as a celebration of the birth of Christ. Where are you getting that I'm talking specifically about modern Christmas??

Actually I outright said that some Christmas traditions are taken from Pagan ones, if you read. But that Christmas was 'originally a Pagan celebration' is patently false.

[dethtoll]

I'm talking about Christmas as a celebration of the birth of Christ. Where are you getting that I'm talking specifically about modern Christmas??

I'm not. Try reading my comment again.